[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":41404},["ShallowReactive",2],{"/podcast/news-08-26-state-of-js-2025-warcraftcn-webmcp-ai-fatigue":3},{"podcast":4,"pickOfTheDayCount":96,"speakerCount":97,"relatedPodcasts":98,"transcript":99},{"id":5,"published_on":6,"type":7,"number":8,"title":9,"slug":10,"description":11,"transcript":12,"audio_url":13,"apple_url":12,"google_url":12,"spotify_url":12,"cover_image":14,"banner_image":12,"speakers":26,"members":27,"picks_of_the_day":92,"tags":93,"tagsPrepared":94,"speakersPrepared":95},"703bad70-08bb-4451-894e-7eeefe0cb40c","2026-02-19T05:00:00.000Z","news","08/26","State of JS 2025 // WarcraftCN // WebMCP // AI Fatigue","news-08-26-state-of-js-2025-warcraftcn-webmcp-ai-fatigue","\u003Cp>Jetzt ganz neu in der programmier.bar: Videos! Ab sofort könnt ihr die News-Folgen auf \u003Ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/@programmierbar\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">YouTube\u003C/a> und \u003Ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/0ik0sXv9paTQCeThcOLCCJ\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Spotify\u003C/a> auch als Video ansehen.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>Ihr wollt auf der programmier.con 2026 einen Talk halten? Dann meldet euch jetzt unter: \u003Ca href=\"https://cfp.programmier.bar/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">cfp.programmier.bar\u003C/a> \u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>Außerdem findet am 5. März und 9. April wieder die beliebten \u003Ca href=\"https://www.programmier.bar/meetup\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">programmier.bar Meetups\u003C/a> statt - und ihr könnt uns auf der \u003Ca href=\"https://decompiled.de/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">DecompileD\u003C/a> und der \u003Ca href=\"https://www.devland.eu/de/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">DevLand\u003C/a> Konferenz treffen.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp data-start=\"89\" data-end=\"581\">Dennis berichtet in dieser Folge über den \u003Ca href=\"https://2025.stateofjs.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">State of JavaScript Report\u003C/a>. DieCrew diskutiert, wie sich Trends im JavaScript-Ökosystem entwickeln und vergleichen den Report mit ähnlichen Publikationen wie dem State of HTML. Besonders im Fokus stehen neue Tools und Frameworks wie Astro und Hono, die auf Performance und Portabilität setzen und bestehende Webstandards clever nutzen.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp data-start=\"990\" data-end=\"1471\">Dave lebt aktuell seine Liebe zu World of Warcraft wieder aus und hat passend dazu ein neues UI Framework mitgebracht. Wir schauen uns \u003Ca href=\" https://www.warcraftcn.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">WarcraftCN\u003C/a> an!\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp data-start=\"990\" data-end=\"1471\">Anschließend geht es um \u003Ca href=\"https://developer.chrome.com/blog/webmcp-epp\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">WebMCP\u003C/a>, ein Google-Projekt, das klassische MCP-Funktionalitäten auf Web-Client-Ebene bringt. Jan erklärt, wie Entwickler:innen damit AI-gestützte Funktionen direkt über Webseiten anbieten können, ohne eigene MCP-Server aufsetzen zu müssen. Die Diskussion beleuchtet sowohl deklarative als auch imperative APIs und die Herausforderungen beim Synchronisieren von UI und automatisierten Funktionsaufrufen. Die Crew bleibt dennoch skeptisch.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp data-start=\"1473\" data-end=\"1988\">Im weiteren Verlauf thematisiert Fabi das Thema \u003Ca href=\"https://siddhantkhare.com/writing/ai-fatigue-is-real\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">AI-Fatigue\u003C/a> und die wachsende Müdigkeit im Umgang mit generativer KI. Besonders der Unterschied zwischen menschlicher Kreativität und maschinell erzeugten Inhalten wird diskutiert: Review-Prozesse mit Menschen bringen noch echten Lerneffekt, während das ständige Anpassen von AI-generiertem Code oft wenig befriedigend ist. Auch die Frage von Ownership und Verantwortung im Umgang mit KI-generierten Outputs spielt eine zentrale Rolle.\u003C/p>",null,"https://www.buzzsprout.com/176239/episodes/18706351-news-08-26-state-of-js-2025-warcraftcn-webmcp-ai-fatigue.mp3",{"id":15,"title":16,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":17,"filename_download":18,"metadata":19,"type":20,"filesize":21,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":22,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":24,"folder":12,"width":25,"height":25,"charset":12,"duration":12},"e101cb02-ba39-4e8a-bdce-0c315517e751","News Asset 8","e101cb02-ba39-4e8a-bdce-0c315517e751.jpg","News-Asset 8.jpg",{},"image/jpeg","1263959","2026-02-18T10:23:50.414Z","11a655b6-bcfc-4c6c-a13c-68189e38edb9","2026-02-18T10:23:50.411Z",1500,[],[28,46,61,77],{"member":29},{"id":30,"first_name":31,"last_name":32,"occupation":33,"description":34,"normal_image":35},"47099351-508c-44d9-a2a2-855181c72ee8","Jan Gregor","Emge-Triebel","// programmier.bar Tech Community Lead // Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Jan ist ein echter Technik-Fan mit einer facettenreichen Karriere, die sich über Web-, Mobile-App-Entwicklung und DevOps erstreckt. Dank seiner vielfältigen Rollen – vom Entwickler über den Teamleiter bis hin zum Vice President Development – verfügt Jan über einen großen Erfahrungsschatz in der Softwareentwicklung und Developer Advocacy.\u003Cbr>Seine Leidenschaften jenseits der Technik reichen von Tauchgängen an exotischen Orten über das Eintauchen in digitale wie analoge Spiele bis hin zum Abtauchen in gelungene Plot-Twists in Büchern und Filmen.\u003C/p>",{"id":36,"title":37,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":38,"filename_download":39,"metadata":40,"type":20,"filesize":41,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":42,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":43,"uploaded_on":44,"folder":12,"width":45,"height":45,"charset":12,"duration":12},"ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b","Jan CD","ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b.jpg","Jan_CD.jpg",{},"649400","2024-07-26T09:26:17.846Z","e97179d2-51b3-4deb-828f-9524091441f5","2024-07-26T09:26:17.710Z",1024,{"member":47},{"id":48,"first_name":49,"last_name":50,"occupation":51,"description":52,"normal_image":53},"958f6624-c721-4ff9-8a97-69148f540945","Dennis","Becker","// Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Dennis ist Head of Development bei Lotum und kümmert sich liebevoll um die Entwickler:innen und deren Weiterentwicklung. \u003Cbr>In den Podcastfolgen übernimmt Dennis gerne die Moderation. Beim täglichen Tischtennis ist er immer am Start und seit wenigen Jahren passionierter Kitesurfer. Mittlerweile ist er auch Vibe Coder mit Leidenschaft und überzeugt, dass seine Kolleg:innen AI unterschätzen. \u003C/p>",{"id":54,"title":55,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":56,"filename_download":57,"metadata":12,"type":20,"filesize":58,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":59,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":12,"uploaded_on":60,"folder":12,"width":45,"height":45,"charset":12,"duration":12},"7a9fd72e-16b1-4283-8c1f-348a3e7986f9","Dennis Becker","7a9fd72e-16b1-4283-8c1f-348a3e7986f9.jpg","dennis_becker_normal_01e352e682.jpg","45729","2022-01-16T14:26:35.196Z","2021-12-30T14:16:28.647Z",{"member":62},{"id":63,"first_name":64,"last_name":65,"occupation":66,"description":67,"normal_image":68},"11d2e9b0-4443-4287-96bc-3930b0ada739","Dave","Koschitzki","// Website // Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Dave ist seit 2024 Mitglied des programmier.bar-Teams. Neben seiner Arbeit an der Website-Entwicklung bringt er frischen Wind in den Podcast und ist regelmäßig bei Meetups anzutreffen. Seine Leidenschaft für Games, die er sowohl auf der Konsole als auch am PC spielt, ist unübersehbar.\u003Cbr> \u003Cbr>Wenn er nicht gerade in virtuelle Welten eintaucht, trifft man ihn im Fitnessstudio, wo er mit Begeisterung Gewichte stemmt. Dave bereichert das Team nicht nur durch seine technischen Fähigkeiten, sondern auch durch seine vielseitigen Interessen und ansteckende Energie.\u003C/p>",{"id":69,"title":70,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":71,"filename_download":72,"metadata":73,"type":20,"filesize":74,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":75,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":43,"uploaded_on":76,"folder":12,"width":45,"height":45,"charset":12,"duration":12},"578c2a0f-e919-4668-9cb4-f5b97252d57f","Dave CD","578c2a0f-e919-4668-9cb4-f5b97252d57f.jpg","Dave_CD.jpg",{},"675668","2024-07-29T14:46:16.725Z","2024-07-29T14:46:16.613Z",{"member":78},{"id":79,"first_name":80,"last_name":81,"occupation":51,"description":82,"normal_image":83},"ff2b7fcd-803f-4bcb-88d4-4f36636c7d6a","Fabi","Fink","\u003Cp>Es ist eher dem Zufall zuzuschreiben, dass Fabi zum Full Stack Developer wurde. Mit Anfängen als Product Owner und Software-Architekt, hatte er zwischenzeitig seine Passion als Coding Wizard gefunden. Heute fungiert er als Product Manager bei Lotum.\u003Cbr>Als Frontsänger mehrerer Bandprojekte fehlt Fabi manchmal die große Bühne im Alltag. Das ist vor allem dann spürbar, wenn er im Podcast auch mal ungefragt seinen Expertisen-Senf dazugibt. Im Gegenzug ist er der Einzige in der Runde, der den Pick of the Day wirklich ernst nimmt.\u003C/p>",{"id":84,"title":85,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":86,"filename_download":87,"metadata":88,"type":20,"filesize":89,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":90,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":43,"uploaded_on":91,"folder":12,"width":45,"height":45,"charset":12,"duration":12},"56cc12dd-4672-4db0-850f-7ad37b68ca86","Fabi CD","56cc12dd-4672-4db0-850f-7ad37b68ca86.jpg","Fabi_CD.jpg",{},"583732","2024-07-29T11:46:00.241Z","2024-07-29T11:46:00.135Z",[],[],[],[],458,187,[],{"id":100,"service":101,"supported_features":102,"speakers":105,"raw_response":115},"5266f038-47ab-43b9-90e8-96f54ad34b08","deepgram",[103,104],"timestamps","diarization",[106,109,111,113],{"identifier":107,"name":108},"0","Jan",{"identifier":110,"name":64},"1",{"identifier":112,"name":80},"2",{"identifier":114,"name":49},"3",{"metadata":116,"results":130},{"transaction_key":117,"request_id":118,"sha256":119,"created":120,"duration":121,"channels":122,"models":123,"model_info":125},"deprecated","48461532-b888-4b95-b5ed-8880f4a01af7","e2c2f57fffcf49ecbe2e2cac773c74f2db0977634a72ed99a8e959a6118f0e15","2026-02-18T16:25:04.913Z",3005.625,1,[124],"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3",{"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3":126},{"name":127,"version":128,"arch":129},"2-general-nova","2024-05-09.3071","nova-2",{"channels":131,"utterances":29289},[132],{"alternatives":133},[134],{"transcript":135,"confidence":136,"words":137,"paragraphs":27293},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu 1 neuen programmierbaren News Ausgabe, heute schon in Kalenderwoche 8 20 26. Das Jahr ist quasi gefühlt schon gleich wieder rum, obwohl gefühlt gestern erst Silvester war. Ich bin Jan Gregor Ingo Riebel und mit mir im Studio sitzen Dave aka David Krusitzky. Moin. Dennis Becker und der Fabi Think, hallo. Das hat ja geklappt, als hätten wir das geübt. Das ist ja wunderbar. Wir wollen heute sprechen über den State of JavaScript Report über Warcraft, ich bin gespannt, über WebMCP und darum, warum AI uns alle fertigmacht. Aber vorher haben wir noch so ein paar Housekeeping News am Start und zwar einmal der Hinweis, dass ihr euch jetzt noch ganz schnell für das Meet-up anmelden könnt, am fünften März wieder bei uns in der Saline. Es geht Micro Interactions in UX, Design, Umsetzung und Implementierungen und das Ganze wird gezeigt von ein paar netten Kollegen von uns. Außerdem Julian Sven. Und Sven. Sau da. Also wenn dann dann beide. Wenn ihr jetzt zu 'nem kommt, dann zu dem. Ja, nee, das wird doch richtig. Das wird richtig gut. Ich merk ja auch die ganze Zeit, wie Julian da Feuer und Seele reingibt, von daher. Svens Talk hat ja schon eine gehaltene Waschwutsch schon sehr gehypt. Oh. Von daher, deswegen haben wir ja überhaupt dazu. Also der jetzt, ich glaub, der freu ich mich auch sehr drauf. Der wird doppelt geil. Da müsst ihr, also wenn ihr zu einem Meet App kommt, dann zu dem. Ja, ich werd kommen. Ich auch. Ich werd auch. Da weg. Das ist jetzt natürlich, also Fabi cooler Pitch, aber ist natürlich megaschwierig, jetzt das nächste Meet App noch anzukriegen. Woll ich auch noch. Wenn man zu einem wenn ihr leider nicht am fünften März kommen könnt, obwohl ihr unbedingt kommen wolltet, wie Fabio das gesagt hat, dann könnt ihr am neunten April ins nächste Meet-up kommen. Und zwar ist Julia Kordik bei uns vor Ort. Wir hatten ja mit ihr die Oh Gott. Podcastaufnahme gemacht über Coding Agents und sie hat son bisschen erzählt aus ihrer Arbeit bei bei Microsoft. Und das ganze Thema arbeiten wir noch mal bei uns vor Ort auf. So. War das war das nicht wer anderes, der bei bei, die bei Microsoft gearbeitet hat? Nee, das ist die einzige Nee, wir wir machen jetzt nicht wieder den Medium Witz hier, dass Medium hat nicht bei Microsoft gearbeitet. Oder hat sie bei Microsoft? Die kenn ich von Microsoft, ja. Okay, von Microsoft. Okay, das ist richtig, Und das langweilig war natürlich grad ein Scherz, deswegen auf euren Bezug auf Fabi. Auch 'n cooles Meet-up. Genau. Nee, nicht so cool wie das jetzt im März, aber Hat Fabi gesagt? Ja, Fabi. Ich hab nette Sachen zu einem Meet-up. Also ich weiß, also ist ja eure Sache, was ihr erzählt. Ist ja eure Bühne macht, was ihr wollt mit der eurer Zeit. Wer noch mehr Talks will und programmierbar sehen will, kann quasi am zwölften März nach Dresden kommen und da Dennis auf der Dekompiled Konferenz sehen, nämlich auch auf der großen Bühne. Und Gott sei Dank ist er nicht nur Dennis auf der großen Bühne, sondern wir machen eine Liveaufnahme vor Ort im Rahmen der Konferenz und Julian und ich werden auf der Devland sein und da auch im Abendprogramm wahrscheinlich noch mal den programmierbar Contest, die Coding Competition, die wir auch auf den Ja, ja. Programmiercon hatten, noch mal in den Start bringen. Das stimmt. Und wer keines von diesen Events schafft und uns trotzdem sehen will, der kann uns jetzt auch einfach auf Youtube anschauen oder auf Spotify Video irgendwas. Und bald auch bei Apple, oder? Ja, da arbeiten wir noch dran. Das klappt jetzt grad noch nicht so mit dem Hoster, so wie wir das wollen, aber das kommt hoffentlich auch bald. Ja. Sorry, Dennis, worüber redest Du? Kurze Zweiter zusammengefasst. In Dresden. In Dresden. In Dresden. Ich, das ist ja eine Live Podcast, ein Format, das wir zum ersten Mal machen. Oh. Und wer ist denn Jan und Du oder wer wer ist da live? Nee, Icker. Ich bin ja gleichzeitig auf der Defland. Die ist am zwölften und Dreizehnten Du machst alleine Podcastaufnahme. Dennis macht allein, ja. Nein. Ich Ich hab auch schon Handelsschweiß im Gesicht, wenn wir das noch nicht tun. Ja, das ist, das soll 'n bisschen weniger Dennis haben im Podcast Ich hab die Ehre, mit Pia Temple zu sprechen. Ab Pia ist Product Management oder Director of Product Management at Github. Oh. Und hält die Keynote auf der Konferenz. Mhm. Und dann haben wir mittags einen Slot, ja, darüber zu sprechen, vor allen Dingen son bisschen AI Governance, wie welche welche was macht GitHub, son bisschen zu gucken, AI in sicheren Bahnen zu halten, wird son bisschen Kern des Themas sein. Und ja, aber auch mit durchaus gibt son Frage- und Antwort Tool auch da auf der Konferenz. Das heißt auch, das Publikum, was da ist, kann 'n bisschen Fragen einstreuen. Mhm. Bin 'n bisschen aufgeregt, weil das ist ja das erste Mal so Live. Setting live dann Ja. Auf 'ner Bühne Podcast zu machen. Aber wird, glaub ich, ganz cool. Und auch noch 2 andere Gäste schon klargemacht, die ich auch interviewe auf der Konferenz, die ja dann aber erst reguläre Folgen, rauskommen werden. Spannend. Ja, wirklich spannend. Mhm. Ich bin ich bin für dich aufgeregt. Du kannst auch noch weiterhin mitkommen. Machen wir's zu zweit auf der Bühne? Ja. Oh, okay. Ja, Mayvie. Find ich gar nicht so unspannend. Na, siehst Du? Mayvie Mayvie. So, und bevor sich Dennis AI Governance kümmert, kann er vorher noch mal bei uns was erzählen zu dem State of JavaScript Report. Wir hatten ja, ich glaube, Anfang des Jahres über den State of HTML Report schon gesprochen. Das klingt sehr ähnlich. Ist es aus demselben Haus? Ja, das hast ja hoffentlich Du vorher recherchiert, bevor Du diese Frage stellst. Ich hab nur gesehen, das hatten wir schon mal, dachte, ja, State of irgendwas. Klingt doch so, als will man das sagen? State of. Gute Frage. Ich hab mich jetzt nicht noch mal da mit beschäftigt, wer eigentlich dahintersteckt und wer das macht. Wir hatten State of JavaScript, glaub ich, schon häufig hier im Podcast über in den letzten Jahren. Wer aber tatsächlich, das kenn ich bestimmt irgendwie parallel noch kurz, Weiß ich nicht, was die machen. Egal. Ah doch, HTML gehört zu denen. Also es sieht sehr ähnlich aus. Ja, das sind die gleichen Leute, die wohl ziemlich als One Man Show irgendwann 2016 angefangen haben, dieses ganze Ding zu tun und son Surrey Plattform zu sein eben für die unterschiedlichen Sachen. Ich glaub, was auch das Ganze vereint, macht schon Spaß, da mal 'n bisschen rumzuklicken. Das heißt, vor allen Dingen in der Einladung, dass ihr euch das auch mal anguckt, State of Jazz Punkt com, son bisschen euch da durchzuklicken. Und genau, JavaScript, da geht's letztendlich so alles, ja, Frontend, Backend Tools, die Frameworks, die da so draußen sind. Ich find das Intro irgendwie ganz, ganz süß, ist so. Ist ja vor nicht allzu langer Zeit die Switch 2 rausgekommen von Nintendo. Und das war 9 Jahre, nachdem die erste Switch rauskam. Und so die Entwickler, die dafür entwickeln, ne, 9 Jahre lang irgendwie gleich in Frameworks, keine neuen Bugs, gleiche APIs. Und wenn man das dann vergleicht mit der JavaScript Welt, wo es die ganze Zeit irgendeinen neuen Scheiß gibt, den man theoretisch hinterherlaufen soll. Aber ja, daher ein bisschen mehr Chaos und von daher ganz interessant, was da so Neues kommt. Vielleicht ein, 2 Sachen rausgepickt, weil wir häufig mal im Podcast darüber sprechen. Also es gibt verschiedenste Kategorien, in denen das son bisschen aufgeteilt ist. Und die werden dann immer bewertet nach, in verschiedensten Kategorien. Also wie viel wird es genutzt? Wie viel ist bekannt? Wie hoch ist die Zufriedenheit? Ich glaube, ein Frontend Framework, was gehightet wird, ist. Mhm. Ist zwar nicht mega verbreitet, also irgendwie so bei 10 Prozent, ist aber seit 5 Jahren. Ah, das heißt, das sind einfach viele, die das sehr feiern und wo ja tatsächlich auch son paar ja, Sachen wie hier Signals, kamen ja auch 'n bisschen da raus oder wurden dann noch mal populär durch. Also gehen wir einfach ein paar interessante Dinge, die dieses Framework ausmachen, was Developer feiern. Genau. Und ist da trotzdem noch nicht so die absolute Marktdurchdringung. Vielleicht fallen nicht so viele Leute dann rumpfuschen, deswegen bleibt's auch weiterhin. Das war auch mein erster Gedanke so. Wenn Du nicht alles vereinen willst und alles all Things for all people sein willst, vielleicht machst Du da einfach 'n besseren Job. Ja. Das kann sein, ja. Astro haben wir, glaub ich, irgendwie, weißt Du deine intern, wurd es zuletzt auch wieder irgendwo benutzt? Astro for Picks Webseite. Oh. Cloudflair. Cloudflair. Ja. Hatten wir auch irgendwann News. Ja. Und ja, sehr zufrieden die Leute. Also ist da Nummer 1 Meta Framework aktuell bei 94 Prozent Zufriedenheit. Ist der Doktor S, die seid übrigens selbst mit Astro gemacht. Aber wahrscheinlich auch noch nicht seit 2016. Weil ich hab so nur bei der bei der Ich hab einfach Astro gebaut für die Webseite und dann halt irgendwie sonen Framework draus veröffentlicht. Genau. Und ja, ich mein, der der, was hat mir noch, warte mal, ich wollte noch Selt sieht man auch, haben wir auch schon häufiger drüber gesprochen. Ist auch ein Framework, also wo wo's dann natürlich irgendwie die beiden Komponenten gibt mit Selt Kit und Selt selbst, was über die Jahre einfach an User immer son bisschen zugenommen hat und auch insgesamt eine weiterhin hohe Rate hat. Also Svelt Kit ist da auf Platz 2. Joa, ich glaube, das reicht erst mal so an ein, 2 Sachen. Ich wollte noch euch fragen, ich finde jetzt natürlich grade, wenn ich klicke, diese Seite nicht, es gab so rausstechende Sachen und da war ein Framework, was ich noch gar nicht gehört habe. React. Und wollte, also hier gibt's einiges, was ich noch nicht gehört habe, aber Kennt ihr Hono? Ja. Das ist doch son Dino Framework, Dino Webserver Framework, oder? Genau, es ist 'n Back End Framework und ist auf jeden Fall hier auch als 1 der sehr wichtigsten irgendwie rausgestellt worden. Mhm. Neben Bann auch, als Bandler. Ja, ich find die Seite jetzt wieder nicht. Egal. Also war auf jeden Fall was, was mir ins Auge sprang, was da jetzt irgendwie in so ein Level gekommen ist. Die haben sone Clusterung von wegen, wie wichtig sind diese Frameworks und wo haben die sich etabliert? Und da sind sie in das oberste s-Tier gerutscht. Und dann dacht ich, okay, krass, dass ich noch nicht davon gehört hab und trotzdem Ich muss mal muss mal Sebi, glaub ich, fragen. Ich glaub, Sebi hat uns, also hat ja alle, glaub ich, was Express, Chor und so weiter durch. Hono, glaub ich, hat er auch schon eingesetzt. Und na, hab ich sofort Ja, Pitch von Hono ist doch so, wir machen alles auf Webständerarts basierend und bauen quasi so wenig eigene Klassen- und Metamodelle wie wie notwendig so. Und dadurch soll's halt so superportabel sein und schnell. Mhm. Ja, aber krass. Also direkt mit was rausgekommen hier, ohne mal auschecken. Nice. Yuddy, das war's. Das war's. Dann hab ich als Nächstes auf der Liste, dass Dave was erzählen wollte zu Warcraft und gestern gesagt hat, oh mein Gott, er hängt wieder voll in Burning Crusade ab, weil das ist ja jetzt so in Classics wieder released worden. Und der erste Gedanke, der mir danach kam, Dave, war, bist Du überhaupt alt genug, original View gespielt zu haben? Ja, ja. Also Jan hat's richtig gesagt, ich bin wieder in Azeroth gefangen, leider. Ich hab ja ich hab ja mein Schultereckgelenk gesprengt und war dann nicht fähig, irgendwas zu machen. Aber da seh ich, WOW, also World of Warcraft ist 'n sehr unanspruchloses Spiel. Oh, ich seh schon die E-Mails sind angekommen, weil Du das hier sind. Das war ja alles voll. Superdreifach. Superan. Es ist ein nicht so anspruchsvolles Spiel, das man supereinfach mit nur der Maus spielen kann. Deswegen also perfekt eigentlich nur mit der mit dem rechten Arm. Nee, tatsächlich und ja, ich war alt genug. Ich weiß noch ganz genau, wie ich damals im Real mir Burning Crusade geholt habe und es war ab 12 und ich bin da genau 12 geworden. Deswegen Okay, also also bist Du quasi mit Burning Crusade aber eingestiegen, so. Genau, also bin damit eingestiegen? Vanille, ganz original so mitgekriegt. Nee, nee, genau, genau. Also aber ich find's schon, dass es son Nerddog ist, wo ihr beide, glaub ich, ja gar nicht Doch, ich, also ich war auf jeden Fall, ich bin die paar Jahre älter, im im Original gespielt zu werden. Echt, Du hast das hab ich dann aufgehört. Also das hab ich dann gar nicht mehr mitgemacht. Ich hab davor Ja, same. Ah okay. Und da warst Du auch Ja. Bei Warcraft 3 auch dabei? Oder war das Warcraft 3 hab ich nee, ich hab nee, hab ich, warcraft 3 hab ich nicht gespielt. Ah, okay. Der Massag hab ich Counter Strike gespielt. Ah, okay. Ja, stimmt, das dann echt. Ich hab Counter Strike, W0W, das waren eigentlich wirklich meine 2 Games, in der ich wirklich sehr viel Zeit drin gibt hab. Ja. Ja, bietet auch sehr viel Potenzial dafür. Auch Potenzial dafür, Deswegen, also ich hab nur eine kleine News mitgebracht, weil ich das irgendwie ganz fand und mich grad diesen Nerd Kosmos befinde. Und zwar heißt das Ganze Warcraft CN für die Leute, die sagen, hey, das CN sagt mir was. Also es gibt ja diese Chat CN, was jetzt keine keine ist, die man über irgendwie so NPM oder so installiert, sondern einfach sone Ansammlung von verschiedenen Componits. Man kann sich daran bedienen. Vorteil ist natürlich, anders als wenn Du's über NPM installierst und dann quasi die Komponente einfach verwendest, kannst Du dir da komplett customizet. Das heißt, Du hast den kompletten Code und kannst dann sagen, hey, ich möcht an der Komponente noch mal irgendwie was anderes machen und kannst das dann deinem eigenen Code komplett verändern. Genau. Und da gibt's Warcraft CN, da hat der Entwickler die org dev, also auch sehr passend vom Namen her, so was entwickelt und hat verschiedene Komponenten bereitgestellt, die in dieser Warcraft Ästhetik da sind. Also Was sind Webkomponenten, ja, ist 'n Webkomponenten. Genau, genau, das sind Webkomponenten, genau. Genau und da haben wir verschiedene Sachen, ne. Wie einfach sone Karte, die aufkommt und genauso aussieht mit diesem Holzhintergrund und diesem Metall drumherum wie son Schild. Auch die verschiedenen Buttons, die man aus dem Spiel kennt. Auch die Drop down Menü, wo man dann verschiedene Sachen auswählen kann. Die Schrift sieht auch so sehr aus. Und insgesamt einfach, also ich hab was so angeschaut und hab mir so, ach schön. Und wenn ich jetzt irgendwie so mir vorstelle, ich hab son kleines privates Projekt, wo ich irgendwie eine Fantasy Seite oder so kreiere, werd ich mir das auf jeden Fall auf jeden Fall anschauen. Was ich, das ist, die News Case ist in 'nem private Fantasy Valley. Ich würd das, also ich würd's ja nicht beruflich benutzen. Warum nicht? Ja, wieso? Ich ich hab mich jetzt eigentlich schon voll darauf gefreut, dass hier so das als Overlay, ja, für Christmas dann mal kommt. Oh, ja. Ja, direkt nächster Pitch. Was ich aber sehr, sehr cool finde und das, also ist son bisschen so was Emotionales, der Entwickler hat das vor 'ner Woche oder so veröffentlicht und hatte da, glaub ich, irgendwie nur so 3 Komponenten, die man nutzen konnte. Und mittlerweile ist das da irgendwie Community Bewegung entstanden, wo wir da auch gesehen haben, GitHub Star sind so recht schnell angestiegen. Leute fügen da auch selbst noch mehr Sachen hinzu, wo man jetzt sagen kann, oh, Du hast hier irgendwie die Ork Fraktion, dann hast Du auch die Untoten und so ist alles so, dass die ist farblich anders irgendwie codiert. Und das find ich irgendwie schön, dass da jetzt auch sone kleine Nerd Bewegung entstanden ist. Sehr holsam und Und Copyright gibt's da nicht oder so? Auf die Dinge. Oh, das ist ja mehr son Geschmacksmusterding, oder? Wenn das jetzt nur so aussieht wie son bekanntes UI. Okay. Welche, aber auf welche hast Du denn sonen Copyright, das irgendwie, ich weiß nicht, wenn Du das so nennst, alles und irgendwo das 1 zu 1 so aussieht? Aber guter Punkt eigentlich. Also grad, ne, ich glaub, so Assets wären davon schon. Auch schon alt genug. Das ist schon das. Ja. Nee, warte doch, aber so, ne, weil das irgendwie so Holzhintergründe, die sind, glaub ich, da irgendwie schon rausgenommen oder irgendwelche Planeten. Na ja, gute Frage. Ja. Aber es ist ja 'n schönes Projekt, also wovon vielleicht selbst auch son bisschen profitiert, dass das auch recht noch etwas erreicht ist. Genau. Ja. Ja. Genau. Wunderbar, wunderbar. Dann Wenn halt andere Games auf einmal anfangen, Warcraft C n zu nutzen und das vielleicht fangen sie dann an, irgendwie mal dagegen vorzugehen. Oh, ja. Oder irgendwas. Also mal schauen, also die diese die die das Ganze vor Gericht werden wir natürlich auch begleiten. Der Gossip Podcast wieder. Okay. Bleiben wir im Browser, wenn Dave seine Fantasy Page gebaut hat mit Warcraft c n und ihr die von euren ganzen AI Agents bedienen lassen wollt, die ihr ja wahrscheinlich mittlerweile zu Dutzenden laufen habt, dann hat Google was Neues für euch am Start, nämlich WebMCP. Wir haben vor Ewigkeiten hier schon mal so über klassisch MCP gesprochen, also so als MCP Server, mit dem man eigene Toolcalls im Prinzip bereitstellen kann. Und Web MCP stellt sich jetzt im Prinzip an, dasselbe zu sein, aber auf reiner Webseiten Client Ebene. So, das Ganze ist im Moment noch in sonem sehr sehr Early Preview Programm, kann man sich anmelden bei Google, dann kann man mal in die Dokumentation da reinschauen. Hab ich mal gemacht. Und Sie verkaufen das im Prinzip als die bessere oder einfachere Variante zu MCP, weil Du eben nicht 'n eigenes Backend dafür brauchst. Du musst nicht eigene Endpunkte bereitstellen. Das Einzige in Anführungszeichen, was Du machen musst, ist auf deiner Webseite zu sagen so, hey, das sind hier Funktionen, die von AI bedient werden können. Da gibt's 2 Wege für. Das eine ist sone sehr deklarative API im HTML selbst. Also wenn Du son Formular hast, kannst Du sagen, das hier ist mein Suchformular, da kannst Du Folgendes eingeben. Oder wenn Du eine, weiß nicht, Du bist eine Flugbuchungswebseite, ja, und schaust dann hier, das ist der das das der Abflughafen, das ist der Ankunftszuhafen, das sind die Uhrzeit, das Datum, was Du suchst. Und hier ist der Button, den Du drücken musst und dann geht's irgendwie weiter, ja? Kannst Du das so so im Prinzip 'n bisschen semantischer machen oder Du kannst über sone imperative API direkt in Java Script Callbacks im Prinzip bereitstellen und sagen so, hey, wenn Du eine Flugsuche starten willst, das ist das JSON Schemema, das ich von dir brauche, die Flughäfen, Datum und Uhrzeit zu kennen. Dann kannst Du diese Funktion hier triggern und ich geborene dir direkt eine zurück, die diesem Schema irgendwie folgen wird. Und dann wird im Prinzip die Webseite benutzt, ohne die Webseite zu nutzen, ne. Also im Prinzip dieselbe Logik, dieselben JavaScript Calls können gemacht werden, aber komplett an dem UI vorbei. Du kannst da natürlich auch keine HTML runtergeladen. Also nur der zumindest nur der Skriptteil davon oder was? Also Ja, die Seite wird schon regulär geöffnet und es wird auch gerendert, da kommen wir gleich noch zu. Okay. Und im Prinzip ist es dann auch Aufgabe von dir als WebMCP Anbieter dafür zu sorgen, dass UI und WebMCP son bisschen entzüngt bleiben, ne. Also wenn ich jetzt diesen imperativen Teil benutze, dann muss ich als Webseite schon auch irgendwie schauen, dass ich mein UI entsprechend anpasse, damit's man im Prinzip die Formular genutzt hätte, sowas Ja, genau. Genau. So, ne, da dass das halt irgendwie auch alles passiert, weil der Use Case ist ja schon Oder andersrum, ist 'n ist eine legititive Frage. Ich hab dich auch gefragt, ist das eher son Agent, der son Headless Browser benutzt und ich gar nicht zugucke? Dann wär mir das halt komplett egal. Oder so. Ja. Das ist vielleicht echt gar kein, ja, auf 'ner Übung Oder ist das mehr son son Cloud Co Working Ding, der halt an meinem Rechner irgendwie was macht in meinem Browser für mich oder zumindest denselben Browsercontainer sich irgendwie teilt, ja, schwierig. Weil man muss ja auch bedenken, Du musst ja bei ganz vielen Webseiten auch angemeldet sein und so was, ja? Also der braucht ja irgendwie deine Session, deine Credentials, deine keine Ahnung, er kann ja nicht einfach so drauf losrennen und irgendwas für dich tun. Aber schauen wir dann noch mal an. Also wie gesagt, man kann sich die in der Early Access, nicht Early Access, Early Preview, Early Access war das mit Steam, sich einmal anschauen. Sie haben 'n cooles, kleines Inspector Utility damit veröffentlicht, wo Du im Prinzip in den Dev Utilitities dann so sehen kannst, okay, welche Function Calls werden hier bereitgestellt? Wie sieht irgendwie die dafür aus? Du kannst es im Prinzip direkt mal callen und so tun, als wärst Du quasi das LLM, zu gucken, wie sich das alles verhält, damit Du nicht noch 'n vorne dran brauchst, das alles debuggen zu können. Ja, wie gesagt, super-, superfrüh, ist auch noch hinter 2 Flex versteckt, die man mal so einschalten muss. Kann man alles tun, wenn man eine Betaversion von Chrome hat. Und der Ja, Dennis? Macht der Satz so fertig. Sorry. Der Hauptpunkt ist, glaube ich mit dem Kopf zu spielen. Ja, ja, ja, ja. Man muss mehr mehr, ne. Ich glaub, der der große Unterschied ist halt, wenn man son zum Beispiel son son Playrite MCP Server wird, ne. Ich mach das manchmal während der Entwicklung, einfach hier sagen zu können, Cloud Code schau dir mal die Website an, guck mal, was da nicht funktioniert. Guck dir mal diesen Button an, blapper. Das halt super, super token intensiv. Ja? Eine ganze Webseite parsen, irgendwie das ganze DOM irgendwie durchacker und gucken, was da gemacht werden muss. Das können ja viele schon, aber ist halt krass langsam und unzuverlässig. So, und ich glaube, mit so direkten Function Calls über Web MCP kann es halt krass viel einfacher sein, ohne dass Du halt 'n ganzen MCP Server und bla bla bla dafür bauen musst und Du musst eigentlich nur die Funktionen exposen in deiner Webseite, die Du ja schon da hast. So und jetzt kann Dennis kurz mit dem Kopf schütteln. Danke schön. Ja, glaub ich nicht dran. Also mein Take ist, das wird nicht fliegen. Das also das kommt mir wie son ganz komischer Layer vor. Also entweder ist es halt für Für die Faulen. Ja, man würde halt denken, na ja, nicht erst zum einen für die Faulen, aber zum anderen auch irgendwie für Webseiten, also wo es irgendwie nötig ist, das sozusagen noch zu haben, aber die implementieren das dann irgendwie auf die nächsten Jahre auch nicht. Also also, ne, jetzt viele Webseiten, die da draußen einfach nur rumgammeln. Und bei den Neuen, ich glaub, da gibt's irgendwie bessere Wege darauf zuzugreifen als über diese diese Oberfläche. Wenn ihr jetzt an Booking dot com denken, die irgendwie halt Integration haben und so weiter. Also ich glaub nicht daran, dass es 'n großes Ding wird. Also ich war auch hin- und hergerissen. Ich aber auf der einen Seite dacht ich mir, das ist ja eigentlich auch 'n Problem. Also grade dieses Deklarative mit Du, ne, markierst einfach in deinem HTML, wie ist dieses Form zu benutzen und und bla bla bla. Das ist ja eigentlich 'n reines Semantikproblem. Also wenn man da mit superviel Aria und Labels und bla arbeiten würde, müsste das ja eigentlich heute schon krass maschinenlesbar sein. Ist ja auch. So, ja. Und da ist, glaub ich, der Schritt halt relativ gering. Und die Frage ist dann, bringt dir diese imperative API halt was, wo Du direkt irgendwie JavaScript Funktionalität exposen kannst, wo ich sagen würde, das ist wahrscheinlich da aber auch nur 'n Shortcut, weil da kann ja eigentlich auch keine Funktionalität hinter sein, die nicht auch schon in deinem UI irgendwie drin ist und irgendwie übers UI erreichbar gemacht. Ich glaube, da ist sone Zwischenlösung, die irgendwie mal ganz nett ist für sone Phase, aber die die mittelfristig halt völlig irrelevant ist. Ja, weil auch wenn Du überlegst, also ich hab auch überlegt, was sind denn jetzt die genauen Use Case? Deine Use Case, die Du vormarzt, ob 'n Flug buchen und so was, ist ja eigentlich, na ja gut, wenn grundsätzlich das Ganze über MCP funktionieren sollte, dann würd ich auch sagen, nicht über Web MCP, dann sollt, dann will ich ja sowieso nicht mit der Webseite irgendwie interagieren. Dann muss es halt irgendwie einen Service geben, mit dem ich direkt interagieren kann, das nur aus der AI herausmache. So ist das ja eigentlich der Use Case, wo ich dann hinkommen will. Und wenn ich sage, ich hab so was wie, also ich konnt mir gedacht, okay, vielleicht ist so was wie, ich bin selbst am Surfen, bin auf 1 Seite und sag ab 'nem schönen Prozess, so, nimm Du mal den Checkout für mich so. Also ich bin keine, oder könnt ja auch Shopping sein so. Hab mir schon 'n paar Sachen ausgeht und sagst am Ende, boah, kein Bock so, mach Du den Rest so, check mal aus und geh mal bezahlen so ungefähr. Und dann ist es so, also wenn da so mitten im Prozess anfängt, würd ich eigentlich auch eher erwarten, dass die AIs dann irgendwann so smart sind, dass sie einfach mit diesen Seiten umgehen können und die Seiten nicht explizites bauen müssen, in jedem Schritt auf einmal die Seite steuern zu können. Sondern dass es dann dass eine AI oder dass wir generell in unserem in unserer Forschung von der AI davon abhängig sind, dass alle Seiten Integration für AI bauen, jede Seite noch mal steuern zu können. Da glaub ich eher, dass es generalistisch gelöst wird und nicht über son Web und jeder Seite muss was implementieren. Und 'n anderen User Case, außer diesen so mittendrin seh ich nicht, weil für den Rest muss es ja generischere Schnittstellen geben als auf der Seite selbst. Weil ja auch, wie Du gemeint hast, mit Tokenintensität und so, es macht das zwar besser, dein Use Case, den Du vorhin beschrieben hast, wo mir einfach immer alles passt, aber ist ja trotzdem noch mal Mengen oder Faktoren schlechter, als wenn ich gar nicht die Seite aufrufen müsste. Na ja, aber Du rufst die Seite ja nicht mehr, also die Seite landet ja nicht mehr in deinem Kontext. Ja. Also wiederum. Das ist halt schon ultraperformant so, ja. Und das Einzige, was halt passieren muss, ist, dass der Browser an das LLM weiterreicht. Hier auf dieser Seite hab ich diese 3 Sachen gefunden. Und das ist halt 'n sehr kleines, son son MCP Proxy sozusagen dann quasi nur noch. Die ganzen Informationen gibst Du trotzdem auch immer raus, auch wenn gar keine AI mit dir redet. Das heißt, da hast Du auch erst mal 'n riesen Overhead, einen Metainformationen, die Ja, also über die Leitung geht gleich viel. Es glaub, es geht nur was Land in dem Kontext. Und das kann ja dann sozusagen extrahiert werden. Ich glaub, das ist weniger, aber über die Leitung kommt erst mal mehr, weil über die Leitung kommt erst mal mehr. Die Seite ist erst mal theoretisch Aber gut, ich mein, das bisschen JavaScript. Ah, genau. Das Export. Das Also Das muss ich wirklich vernachlässigen. Ja, ich glaub auch. Aber ich weiß auch gar nicht, also das wär ja trotzdem aber nicht, also dass der Kontext kleiner wird dadurch, kann ich mir nicht vorstellen, dass das das der USP ist, der's dann zum Abheben bringen soll. Ich glaub, damit Also ich glaub, man muss ja immer auch gucken, wo's herkommt, so, ne. Wenn man's jetzt überlegt, Google macht das, was fürn Incentive hat halt irgendwie Google? Na gut, wenn das halbe Web halt irgendwie damit bedienbarer wird, dann ist halt Google, was irgendwie Automatisierung und Indizierung von dem halben Internet angeht, die haben halt schon 'n Incentive dafür so, ne. Ob das angenommen wird oder nicht, schauen wir mal. Für das halbe Internet, genau. Müssen's ja auch erst mal alle dann implementieren irgendwie. Oh. Na ja, egal. Ich glaube, dann dann dann schenken sich die Leute, weil die AI hätte das trotzdem machen können, auch wenn das MCP Ding nicht da ist. Denke auch. Ansonsten. Gut. Wunderbar. Wenn wir schon bei AI sind, dann, Fabi, erzähl uns doch mal, warum wir alle keinen Bock mehr auf AI haben. Ja, mit mit alle bist Du gemeint. Wieso bin ich da jetzt mit gemeint? Na ja, ist ja schon generell, sehr generalisierend zu sagen, weil wir alle keinen Bock mehr auf AI haben. Bisschen polarisierend hier. Das ist gab es ist richtig auf Krawallgebühlt, weil's auch mal unterbinden. Ja. 1 muss aber für Klicks sorgen hier, Dennis. 1 muss für die Klicks sorgen. Also ich erklär dem Dennis jetzt mal, warum der keinen oder warum der Dennis am Ende der Einzige ist, der noch Bock auf AI hat. Und all seine Entwickler, die unter ihm sind, sagen so, Dennis, hör mir auf mit der Scheiße. Ich hab Bock auf AI und ich leide trotzdem jetzt schon, obwohl ich sehr wenig mache unter dem, was Du jetzt erklären wirst. Okay. Ja, das wär nämlich jetzt auch mal mein meine Frage gewesen, nachdem Du letzte Woche 'n bisschen mehr damit gemacht hast, wie fertig Du bist. Aber das schauen wir dann gleich mal. Ja. So, dann darf ich doch vielleicht, genau, lassen wir mal erzählen, worum's irgendwie geht. Genau. Es geht ja nicht keinen Bock mehr auf Es geht geht einen Blogbeitrag, der jetzt gar nicht so viral gegangen ist, weil so wir haben hier bisschen intern drüber diskutiert. Der ist in meiner Timeline gespürt worden von jemandem Siland Karre, der hat einen Blog und ist auch so im AI Space unterwegs, hat zum Beispiel so was gebaut wie Distill, wo's son bisschen im Kontext geht, also LLM Kontext sozusagen, sie kleiner zu machen, eher auf mathematischen Modellen basiert, das Ganze zu machen, als jetzt 'n LLM noch mal über sonen Prompt drüber zu schicken. Und grundsätzlich auch für Firmen arbeitet rund im im AI Space, also so Framework gebaut hat, wie Agenten sich autorisieren können. Also jemand ist, der sehr affin dafür ist. Und einen Artikel geschrieben hat mit dem, oder 'n Blogbeitrag mit dem Titel. Und ich glaub son bisschen die Grundthese, die er macht und dann mit in verschiedene Bereiche irgendwie darauf eingeht, ist, dass es dass es das Paradox gibt durch die Arbeit mit AI und Agenten von sehr viel höherer Produktivität, aber auch sehr viel höherer Ausgelaugtheit. Und bei ihm am am Ende des Tages auch landend in einem Burn out durch die neue Arbeitsweise, die sozusagen kommt damit, dass man mit AI jetzt zusammenarbeitet. Und son paar Thesen ist, die er dir durchgeht. Also grundsätzlich man natürlich erst mal sagt, so durch diesen Produktivitätsboost, den man mit AI hat und wenn man sie auch so darauf einlässt, ist ja schon super krass einfach erst mal, wie viel produktiver ist, wie man wo man vorher vielleicht in einem Task gearbeitet hat, mittlerweile auch an mehreren Tasks parallel arbeitet. Ja, so, die wir auch immer wieder in den AI News diskutiert haben jetzt mit den ganzen Tools, die wir jetzt irgendwie hatten, jetzt auch grade mit OpenAI, was wieder 'n neues Tool da vorausgebracht hat, auch Parallelisierung besser zu machen, ist es so, dass man ja eigentlich in seiner Rolle immer mehr hin zu einem und Orchestrierer kommt als zu einem Creator so. Und das heißt, dass man eigentlich die Arbeit, was vorher so, sag ich mal, die Schaffenshürde relativ hoch war, Dinge, die wir auch schon mal diskutiert haben darüber so, dass man gesagt hat, man ist selbst, man kreiert selbst so Teil der Arbeit, wenn man im Teamarbeit, ist auch Reviewarbeit, aber man's ja da auch eher darauf verlassen kann so, hey, ich kenn meine Teamkollegen so, ich weiß, worauf ich vielleicht achten muss. Wenn ich irgendwie Reviews durchgeh, muss ich nicht Zeile für Zeile durchgehen. Bei jeder Zeile denken, oh, da könnt jetzt 'n Fehler drinstecken, sondern sagen, hey, den Dennis kenn ich, den Dave kenn ich. Ich kenn den seine Steckenpferde, da muss ich vielleicht 'n bisschen genauer schauen. Hier weiß ich, okay, ist der Opa eigentlich immer ziemlich gut und kann mich vielleicht drauf verlassen. Aber grundsätzlich ist es jetzt so, je mehr wir automatisieren, je mehr wir AI orchestrieren, ist halt dieser Review Part unseres Jobs nimmt den Großteil eigentlich unserer Zeit son bisschen bisschen ein. Und dass darin eigentlich erst mal so der Part steckt, dass das eigentlich eine ganz andere Jobbeschreibung ist, als sie das vorher son bisschen war. Also vorher, es es ist einfach so, wie ich meine Zeit im im Alltag verbringe, etwas ganz anderes. Und ich weiß nicht, wie's wie's vor vor AII bei euch auch war so, der Reviewteil, ich sag mal, in meiner Entwicklerzeit war das nicht der Teil, der mir am meisten Spaß gemacht hat an meinem Job so, aber er halt notwendig war, in einem Team gut zu funktionieren und das definitiv Sinn gemacht hat. Aber der Part war, den ich eher notdürftig gemacht habe als mit dem großen Elan. Und jetzt, wenn man sich das Ganze jetzt anschaut, ist es so, man hat jemanden, den man reviewen muss und vor allem eben nicht mehr davon ausgehen kann, deterministisch oder auch, also deterministisch oder so nicht, aber uns irgendwie auch nicht drauf verlassen kann, ja, die Bereich macht die AR schon immer gut und die nicht, sondern im Endeffekt in dem sich wandelnden und schnell bewegenden Bereich, in dem wir sind, ist es ja auch so mit neuen Modellen und so was, was vorher irgendwie 'nem Prompt, den der vorher immer relativ gleichmäßig denselben Output gebracht hat, bringt jetzt etwas ganz anderes. Ich kann probieren, irgendwie meine Proms möglichst gut irgendwie zu designen. Aber im Endeffekt muss ich sagen, eigentlich muss ich am Ende alles trotzdem noch mal durchschauen und kann mich eigentlich erst mal auf nichts verlassen, auch wenn die grundsätzlich besser werden. Trotzdem kann ich mich eigentlich erst mal auf keine einzelne Zeile son bisschen verlassen. Dazu dann natürlich auch noch diese Parts mit so dieses, er hat's jetzt genannt, Prompt spirals, also dass man irgendwie anfängt, irgendwas zu prompt. Und man findet ja, ah, jetzt bin ich 75 Prozent Output. Ich mach dann 'n bisschen, das mach ich bei 80 Prozent Output, ah, noch 'n Stückchen und so. Und am Ende landet man vielleicht sogar wieder bei weniger Prozent oder bei nur minimal mehr Prozent, weil man gar nicht ganz weiß, wie viel Input muss ich denn noch geben, einen besseren Output zu bekommen? Wann ist der Moment, wann ich vielleicht doch wieder selbst implementiere oder wann ich mich auf die AI verlasse? Und damit als letzter Punkt, den er noch son bisschen aufgemacht hat, die Skill Atropie hat er sie genannt. Also dass er sagt so, hey, früher war er irgendwie supergut darin, irgendwie am Whiteboard irgendwie Lösungen zu skizzieren und irgendwie Probleme zu durchdenken. Und dieser Part mit irgendwie Probleme zu durchdenken, ist eigentlich sonen son son Skill, den er absolut irgendwie verliert dadurch, dass er sich halt eigentlich alle mental schwierigeren Aufgaben häufig sagt, so gut, die AR kann's ja dann, lass ich die AR machen. Und genau, er am Ende über 2 Dinge redet. So einerseits, dass er halt merkt so, dass dass wir, dass wir als als Industrie ja so oder so schon nicht gefeit davor waren oder eher anfällig dafür waren, dass Leute an Burn out leiden, so allein schon, was vor dem Speed irgendwie anging und irgendwie die Arbeitslast, die man irgendwie hatte. Und jetzt aber durch die Arbeit mit AI diese Gefahr einfach noch sehr, sehr viel höher ist, weil wir vorher natürliche Limits waren mit, okay, 'n bestimmtes Problem braucht eine gewisse Zeit. Es braucht eine gewisse Zeit, irgendwie vielleicht auch Probleme zu recherchieren. Ich kann sie in Ruhe durchdenken. Es gibt einfach 'n natürliches Limit, wie viel ich an 'nem Tag schaffen kann. Hat sie einfach jetzt komplett verschoben und die Arbeit hin zu, denk ich, eher Arbeit, die uns allen wahrscheinlich weniger als mehr Spaß macht. Und zwar da eher der zu sein als derjenige, der was erschafft. Und genau, eher son paar Dinge auch aufgeschrieben hat, deswegen das damit würd ich jetzt, werd ich bei erst mal bei dem Tag son bisschen aufhören, weil ich gern wissen wollte, wie's wie's euch damit geht so. Ob ihr dem erst mal folgt, irgendwie ähnliche Effekte seht, dann hat er noch 'n bisschen darüber geredet, was er jetzt mittlerweile tut, dem son bisschen entgegenzuwirken. Aber ich muss erst mal sagen, es hat auch, glaub ich, bei uns hier in der Firma, zumindest bei einigen Verkehrs, irgendwie son Gefühl, was ich komplett irgendwie nachvollziehen kann, dieses irgendwie sehr viel ausgelaukt sein von 'nem Arbeitsalltag mit der Orchestrierung von AI, als man das vorher war. Genau, mit mir hat's auch total resoniert und ich mich würde erst mal interessieren, was ihr was ihr so dazu denkt. Also ich ich bin da auch voll dabei. Ich wollt nur 2 Punkte ergänzen. Das eine, Dennis hatte ja letzte Woche bei uns diese AI Dates, AI Coffees veranstaltet, wo wir auch mal son bisschen in dem Team darüber gesprochen haben. Und was da 'n ganz interessanten Take fand oder einfach vorher nicht so dran gedacht hab, war das das auch unseren Designern genauso geht. Ja, also wir reden da immer nur so kommend warum aus dieser Brille mit, na ja, wir haben hier Code Review und wir gucken hier viel Code an und bla. Aber ich hab da mit unser Designer angesprochen und jemand auch gesagt, na ja, ist halt für uns genau dasselbe, ne? Wir generieren hier so stupide Bilder vor uns her im Prinzip und hoffen, hier mal was anzupassen und da mal was zu machen und so. Aber dieses dieses Phänomen, was er da in diesem Blogpost beschreibt mit und Review ist Training, Das ist halt für im Prinzip alle so, ja. Und also wahrscheinlich sogar Ist das auch bei bei Design sogar fast noch schlimmer. Ich hör das ja jetzt ja auch dadurch, dass wir superviel Image machen so. Dadurch, dass der mit jedem prompt eigentlich, also grad das Verändern, so das iterative Verändern viel, viel schwieriger ist so. Du machst ja auch immer so, ah, das ist schon gut. Kleinigkeiten gefallen mir noch nicht. Und dann machst, probierst einfach noch mal das gleiche Image zu generieren, weil mit demselben Input dann auch irgendwie die Qualität dann immer flöten geht. Und ich mein, immerhin bei Code ist es so, dass ich bestimmte Teile, irgendwie Teile schau mal, schau mal, dass noch mal das anfenne und noch mal hier was. Und bei Bild ist ja wirklich so, prompt rein, Image raus, wenn's nicht funktioniert hat, noch mal neu den prompt, weil Image rein, kann ich auch nur bedingt häufig machen, weil am Ende, wenn ich's zehnmal mach, ist die Qualität so, dass es gar nicht mehr funktioniert. Also ich fand wirklich, da hatt ich echt, ich hatte 2 sehr intensive Tage, wo ich probiert hab, son bisschen das Prompt Design für unsere Images zu machen. Und ich wirklich 2 Tage, wo ich gemerkt hab, boah, ich war danach vom Kopf her so fertig davon, weil's irgendwie war. Man war die ganze Zeit in diesem Feeling von, ah, man ist so bisschen kurz davor und dann sind manchmal 3 Stunden flöten gegangen. Man dacht so, ich bin aber, bin ich jetzt eigentlich weitergekommen oder bin ich zurückgelaufen? Ja. Ja. Und der der zweite Punkt ist, weil Du so sagtest, na ja, Review war nicht so der Teil, der dir früher immer Spaß gemacht hat. Ich glaube, Review kann schon auch son sehr befriedigenden Moment haben, wenn man das mit Menschen zusammen macht, weil man sagt, ey guck mal, ne, ich ich Review jetzt hier den Code von 'nem von 'nem Junior, der von jedem der neuen Team ist. Ich erklär dem was und bla. Und dann denkst Du dir am Ende na ja, der hat jetzt halt was gelernt. Und das nächste Mal wird es besser und Du hast da halt so, das ist son Invest und irgendwann gibt's da 'n Return. Aber wenn Du halt deinem Coding Agent fünfmal erklärst, warum halt an der Stelle das nicht so zu tun ist, ja, natürlich kannst Du's irgendwann 'n bisschen in deine Agents übernehmen und 'n paar Roots schreiben und so, aber es ist halt, da ist nicht dieses organische Wachstum drin, ja. Es fühlt sich nicht wie son sinnvoller Zeitinvest an, irgendwie so l m generierten Code irgendwie noch mal zu reviewen und anzupassen. Weil die Chance, dass es halt beim nächsten Mal noch mal oder anderweitig aufpoppt, halt irgendwie schon hoffentlich größer ist als beim beim Menschen, ja, der der vielleicht eher was gelernt hat aus der der Nummer so, ja. Da willst Du Das sind wir lernen grade sehr große Hoffnungen. Und mich, na ja, so letzte Woche einiges einiges ein Code gerivühlt, den ich zusammen mit Claudia zusammen gehackt habe. Und die Hoffnung besteht, dass es besser ist. Aber ich mein diesen ganzen Part, genau, dieses so, man investiert und es sind ja erst mal Zeit, die am Ende dann aber einfach nur verloren ist, weil man muss es im Endeffekt kontinuierlich machen und der Prozess wird dann natürlich nicht besser. Da hat er in seinem, sie dann in seinem Artikel auch noch mal eigentlich das Gleiche gesagt bei Dingen, was was den die Optimierung des eigenen AI Prozesses angeht, also wie ich AI nutze. Sowohl er meinte so, dass er im letzten Jahr irgendwie 2 Wochen irgendwie super fein granularprom betrieben hat, sich da irgendwie Librarys für geschaffen hat, wo er dann irgendwie eine Versionierung davon auch hatte und irgendwie für bestimmte Modelle da so wirklich seine bis ins Detail designt hatte. Und da irgendwie kam 'n Woche später 'n neues Modell und dann hat er gesagt, ja gut, eigentlich sind jetzt, was vorher irgendwie ich mit meinen Singlesshot Templates irgendwie gemacht habe und irgendwie mein ist jetzt mit 'nem einfachen eigentlich jetzt schon besser als vorher war. Und er irgendwie sagt so dieser, Du hast so viele Momente von grade wie wie ja auch AI Tools und so was, wie wie schnell's irgendwie gehypt wird. Web MCP als Beispiel jetzt wieder so, wo Du dich irgendwie reinfuchsen kannst und irgendwie 2 Monate später ist schon wieder so, hey, es ist einfach hier jetzt wieder was komplett anderes und so. Wo ist es wirklich, was sind die Themen, die ich mir jetzt wirklich aneignen muss, die mir irgendwie 'n Skill bringen, wo ich später 'n Vorteil davon habe? Und was ist etwas, wo man sagt, das ist jetzt kurz Thema, aber bei neuen Modellen ist es vielleicht schon wieder gar kein Thema. Und so die Frage, wo investiere ich meine Zeit dran? Was ist wirklich nachhaltig und was ist im Endeffekt vergeudete Mühen? So. Und also da ist ja Review 'n sehr gutes Beispiel von dir noch mal, Jan, aber er sagt eigentlich generell auf allgemein, auf die Adaption von neuen AI Tools. Ja. Ich glaub, das trägt auch voll dazu bei, dass man sich ausgeloggt fühlt. Also ich glaub, er hat's in dem Artikel beschrieben als. So, man hat immer das Gefühl so, ich muss da hinterherkommen, oh, neues Modell, ich muss es austesten, oh, ist es besser. Aber man eigentlich nie auf 'nem Standard ist, dem allen gefällt. Also quasi, wenn man denkt, okay, das ist jetzt 10 Prozent besser, oh, dann musst Du ja's nutzen. Das andere ist ja jetzt auch parallel rausgekommen, wo sind die Unterschiede und so. Und ich glaub, das trägt dazu auch noch bei, nie so auf 'nem zufriedenstellenden Standard zu sein, ne. Anders Und das, was wenn Du was gelernt hast, so oder so, das sind dreimal schon wahrscheinlich wieder komplett obsolet, was Du da gelernt hast, so. Ja. Das heißt, Du optimierst eigentlich immer nur was für den Status quo. Und der Status quo erinnert sich so schnell, dass optimieren für den Status quo sich eigentlich gar nicht wirklich lohnt. Aber andererseits fühlt sich's auch gleichzeitig so an, als würde man sonst komplett abgehängt werden. Mhm. Also deswegen Ja, auch im kleineren find ich, ist, also das wär jetzt eher dann auch 'n bisschen langfristig, wenn Du, ne, Weiterbildung und wie viel investierst Du. Aber muss auch, also ich hab auch festgestellt, auch allein dieses, also dieses Parallele ist, glaub ich, einfach was, was irgendwie 'n bisschen fertigmacht. Ich würde sagen, ich hatte ganz selten als Entwickler früher das Gefühl, jetzt, ne, besonders ausgelaugt zu sein abends oder dass am nächsten Morgen jetzt, oh, jetzt sind ganz frische Ideen, das ist mal passiert oder so, dass am nächsten Morgen man klar drauf geguckt hat, aber so grundsätzlich hatt ich kein Problem mit dem Arbeitstag so. Und ich hab jetzt ja lange nicht mehr entwickelt und jetzt aber die letzten Tage die Möglichkeit gehabt, 'n bisschen mehr wieder an der Programmierbarwebsite und Automatisierung da zu machen und das halt komplett mit Cloud gemacht. Und ich muss sagen, obwohl ich mich als jemanden, also ich schwärz mich als jemanden an, indem das eigentlich sehr gut liegt, parallel die ganze Zeit Kleinigkeiten zu machen, weil ich das auch im Alltag, ne, es kommen immer irgendwie Themen, ich mach kurz was und so. Ich switche dauerhaft Kontext und sehe das als 1 meiner Stärken. Und und trotzdem war's da bei mir abends so, dass ich dachte, ach komm, irgendwie ist mir scheißegal. Also ich ich hab versucht, so parallel son bisschen Notizen zu machen schon. Okay, hier dem Thread muss ich gedanklich noch daran danken, da muss ich vorher auch noch nie gemacht hab, irgendwie viel Notizen zu machen, was als Nächstes kommt. Und dann einfach so unterbewusst gemerkt, ey, ich war irgendwie danach fertig und abends und am nächsten Tag dann wieder, also ging dann wieder besser. Das hat natürlich auch gleich mehr Spaß gemacht. Aber da einfach up to date zu bleiben so, was sind eigentlich die Gedanken? Weil Du immer nur so kurz in diesem Gedankenfenster bist, ach, hier war eigentlich das Problem. Und das hat ja schon relativ viel Kontext irgendwie. Warum mach ich das? Wo wollt ich drauf achten? Was wollt ich noch mal kontrollieren? Und das dann halt komplett zu switchen zu 'nem ganz anderen, ach, das ist eine auch eine coole Thematik. Und noch mal mehr vielleicht auch, weil AI so viel ermöglicht, auch noch mehr zu machen, als man früher gemacht hätte, ne. Wo man jetzt so denkt, ach ja, krass, ist ja eigentlich cool, wenn wir das auch noch hätten. Okay, ist ja kein Problem. Ich kann ja einfach nur schnell eine LinkedIn loslagen, wie er das macht so. Hättest Du halt vorher nicht gesagt, ja, ich bau das Feature noch grade schnell mit ein, sondern hat aber gedacht, ja, komm, das ist einfach der Status quo und fertig. Mhm. Und so geht man halt immer auch noch einen Schritt weiter, was irgendwie die Qualität und den Umfang angeht. Und Ja. Das irgendwo zu begrenzen, war's wahrscheinlich schon Sinn. Oder irgendwie halt Wege zu finden, zu gehen. Ja. Ja. Ja. Aber würd ich sagen, das ist auch eigentlich so der der größte Punkt, was Du gesagt hast mit dem Kontext wechseln, weil so wie Du beschrieben hast von wegen, also Du, Fabi, von wegen, man ist zeitlich limitiert durch den Tasks. Es gab ja einfach Tasks, da hat man einen Tag drangesessen, dann vielleicht noch mal 'n Review gemacht und das war's. Son, wie Du das bestimmt erinnerst, Du hast ja irgendwie so 5 Sachen parallel gehabt und dann immer auch drauf zu achten, was war hier wichtig, was war da wichtig? Ich glaub, also das ist allein schon anstrengend so. Sich, also man kann nie in son Tunnel kommen, was, glaub ich, bei vielen voll wichtig ist, sonen Fokus zu haben und einfach mal 2, 3 Stunden durchzuballern, bevor man durch irgendwie 'n Meeting oder so dann unterbrochen wird. Und allein, dass das fehlt und man das immer so einfach parallelisieren muss und nie diesen Fokus bekommt, ich glaub, das ist auch sehr, sehr anstrengend einfach. Also von daher stimm ich da, glaub ich, 100 Prozent zu. Und auch da wird's ja megasppendend, wie das ist, ne. Ich werd mir schon mal drüber diskutiert, das letzte Mal, glaub ich, dass gefühlt unsere Tasks aktuell, die wir in angeben, auch noch irgendwie relativ kleinteilig sind. Wo wir jetzt irgendwie Laufzeiten haben von, weiß ich nicht, 5 Minuten, 10 Minuten, aber noch nicht so irgendwie, dass wir sagen, okay, der arbeitet jetzt 'n halben Tag oder 'n Tag dran und dann guck ich mal, ne, was man ja teilweise auch schon liest. Wenn das mehr noch dahin geht, ne, dass Du irgendwie noch größere Blöcke hast, die noch größere Abstände haben, wo man sich dann irgendwo damit beschäftigen kann danach, dann reduziert es das vielleicht auch wieder, das Problem 'n bisschen. Und trotzdem ist ja die Frage, was füllst Du die Zeit, in der Du praktisch, ne, grade auf einen Task wartest, was ja sehr spannend wird, wie wie was da sinnvoll ist in der Zukunft. Ja, aber ich glaub halt auch son bisschen dieser Partner, ich sag mir hatten wir im letzten Mal in der News Folge über Security Probleme mit AI und so. Und ich glaube auch schon, das ist auch das, was Du in dem Artikel meint, son bisschen diese Fatique, die man dadurch bekommt durchaus Also selbst wenn es dann länger läuft, ist es am Ende so, Du wirst ja immer mehr in die Rolle kommen, ich entscheide, ich bewerte, ich Review so. Und ich glaube schon, dass diese so auch einfach Taubheit irgendwann zu sagen, so, ich hab gar keine Lust mehr, jetzt irgendwie diese Entscheidung zu treffen, jedes Mal noch mal drüber zu gucken und noch mal die Dinge dazu sein, dass jetzt irgendwie Reviewd und irgendwie sicherzugehen, dass alles irgendwie passt, sodass Du, glaub ich, superschnell in dieses Mentallding dann von reinkommst, ja, ah Wird schon passen. Wird schon passen, so ungefähr. Und weil weil's halt nicht so ist, so, Du bist nicht derjenige, der's und irgendwie baut und irgendwie auch vielleicht auch einen Stolz damit verbindest, dass Du irgendwie eine gute Arbeit abliefern willst, besonders irgendwann ist so, ey, wenn ich am Ende echt nur noch irgendwie Outputs bewertet so, da wird, also keine Ahnung, bei mir wird da auf jeden Fall der Schlendrian irgendwie reinkommen und so. Also so Das find ich, das find ich, das ist echt 'n guter Punkt, so also Punkt Ownership. Weil ich muss sagen, ich fand das auch damals geil so irgendwie, wenn ich son Feature entwickelt habe, so, wir haben als Ziel natürlich entschieden, was machen wir? Aber dann so, ich hab das gebaut und das ist im Spiel, ich hab das auch irgendwie so, oh geil, das hab ich gebaut so. Das hab ich voll gern benutzt so. Und jetzt ist so, na ja, also ich hab's nur orchestriert so. Hab ich da auch genau diese diese Wertschätzung für meine Arbeit selbst so? Wahrscheinlich nicht am Ende. Und das, also Das ist ja aber 'n Du Problem. Also Yeah, hey. Ganz ehrlich, ich glaub, Ich glaub, da kommen wir nicht drum rum irgendwie zu sagen, ist egal, ob Du's selber geschrieben hast oder ob Du's nur orchestriert bist orchestriert hast, Du musst halt schon irgendwie Verantwortung und Ownership dafür übernehmen. So, und das ist, glaub ich, was, was son Mindsetwechsel halt ist und für uns wahrscheinlich son bisschen schwieriger, weil, ne, wie Du grade beschrieben hast, Dave, wir kommen halt irgendwie oder wir wir bringen sone Vergangenheit mit, wo Ownership halt noch anders ausgesehen hat. Aber ich glaub, grade für Leute, die halt jetzt irgendwie damit anfangen, die haben halt schon auch Ownership, wenn sie halt sagen, Du. Ich hab hier was zusammen gepromtet und das hat mein Agent geschrieben ohne mich. Aber das hat halt mein Agent mit meinen Instructions und meinen Skills und meinem Kontext und bla und das gehört dann schon irgendwie also son bisschen zusammen. Was ich noch sagen wollte zu Fabi eben wegen der wegen der Review, ich glaube, was sich halt auch ändert, ist son bisschen die die Grundhaltung, mit der man dann sone Review rangeht, weil zumindest, also keine toxischen Teams und so was, ne, aber ich Sei, sei sei also ehrlich. Nein, nein. Ich mein jetzt nicht wegen dir Dennis oder so, aber früher hast Du ja schon so gedacht, na ja, jeder Developer, dessen Code ich dir anguckt, der kommt ja mit Best intentions hier irgendwie her, ja. Und wenn ich jetzt an diesen Polryquest denk Dennis, wo wir diese Redirects uns angeschaut haben, ne, und dann die AI so sagt halt, ja, ich nutz hier dieses Verselle Feature und automatisier die Redirects im Hintergrund und so. Und dann guckt man den Code an und denkt sich so, nee, das passiert hier einfach nicht. So, das hast Du dir zwar ausgedacht und dieses Feature von Verselle gibt es auch, aber es wird halt einfach nicht genutzt. Das heißt, man muss halt schon auch so mit soner halben Stufe Misstrauen mehr irgendwie da reingehen. Und das ist ja auch einfach kein kein entspanntes gesundes Arbeiten so, ne? Wenn Du die ganze Zeit son sone gewisse Anonymität deiner Arbeit gegenüber hast. Aber auch hier könnte man jetzt argumentieren, auch 'n temporäres Ding, ähnlich wie Web MCSP, so, ne, die Qualität die die Qualität wird insofern steigen, dass man sich teilweise darum nicht mehr kümmern muss. Das löst noch nicht unser Arbeitsproblem. Also ne, wir müssen trotzdem irgendwie gucken, wie der aufgeht in der neuen Rolle so. Das ist mit Sicherheit eine Herausforderung, die wir lösen müssen und wo vielleicht auch nicht jeder Bock drauf hat tatsächlich auf auf die Art der Arbeit dann. Aber vielleicht wird zumindest dieser Code 'n bisschen, ja. Das glaub, auf jeden Fall, ja. Aber ich find übrigens auch, weil Du grad meintest mit irgendwie, wird ja schon irgendwie die Arbeitszeit beeinflussen, irgendwie die Dessert einfach nur so plakativ mir gesagt, Dave, das ist halt nur 'n Du Problem, dass Du dass Du überlegen musst, worauf Du stolz bist und gesagt darauf stolz, dann irgendwas zu und dann irgendwie, Du hast's ja richtig. Ich glaub schon, dass da irgendwie einen wahrer Kern irgendwie son bisschen drinsteckt. Weil ich mein, wenn wir schon uns vorher irgendwie anschauen, so wie sind waren die typischen die sind typische Development Teams aufgestellt? So, es gibt dann eher die Produktverantwortlichen und die, die für die Umsetzung verantwortlich sind so. Und ich würde sagen, wenn man als Entwickler eher auf der Seite war, umsetzungsverantwortlich zu sein und nicht jeder Entwickler auch gleichzeitig irgendwie eine Produktverantwortung mitgetragen hat, ist ja schon das, wo deine Schöpfung für das, was Du gebaut hast, Dinge, auf die man ja trotzdem am Ende des Tages irgendwie stolz ist und irgendwie gemacht hat und so und irgendwie viele eigene Gedanken reingeflossen sind, dass davon ja ganz, ganz viel weggenommen wird so. Und ich glaube schon, dass es super vielen da so geht, dass sie daraus irgendwie eine Form von Genugtuung irgendwie bekommen haben, dass hey, ich hab das gebaut, ich hab überlegt, wie das gebaut wurde und so. Und Du gibst davon ja einiges an die AI ab und bekommst mehr der, schau mal drüber, was ich hier gemacht hab, Aufgaben so. Und dass wir schon wahrscheinlich irgendwo darüber dann darüber unterhalten müssen, woher kommt denn dann diese möglicherweise auch Genugtuung für einige? Und das vielleicht bedeutet, keine Ahnung, Devs werden produktnäher und treffen vielleicht da einfach mehr Entscheidungen und probieren mehr schaffen im wirklich Userfacing Produkt dann am Ende vielleicht mit zu übernehmen, daraus irgendwie eine Bestätigung zu bekommen. Also ich muss sagen, ich kann den Dave komplett nachvollziehen, würde wahrscheinlich sagen, ich hätte diese Problematik auch und würde mir wahrscheinlich irgendwo es woanders her holen. Dass er sagt, so, ich muss mehr auf den outcome stolz sein, weil da vielleicht meine Schöpfungshöhe ist und ich hab nur die AI genutzt, das in die Realität umzusetzen. Aber am Ende derjenige zu sein, der sagt, hey, ich hab hier 'n Product Backlog, da stehen die Anforderungen meines Productmanagers drin. Mein Job ist, das zu nehmen und das eine AI zu erklären, dass da irgendwie Probleme drinstecken, dass Leute sagen, hey, am Ende des Tages bin ich vielleicht nicht mehr ganz so motiviert, weil weil mich das nicht antreibt. Da würd ich schon sagen, ist 'n Problem drin, was wir lösen, was gelöst werden muss. Also ich mach mich noch mal unbeliebt und sag, wer, boah, sag ich das hier am Podcast. Sag das mal Sag das mal, komm. Ja. Also wer wer bisher sein sein Selbstwertgefühl daraus gezogen hat, dass er stupile Tickets umsetzt und sich nicht Gedanken darüber macht, was das eigentlich soll und wo das herkommt, das Feature. Für den hab ich eben bisschen weniger Empathie übrig. Aber das ist, glaub ich, eine ganz andere Diskussion, die man an 'nem anderen Zeitpunkt mal Das hab ich aber auch auf Fabis Beschreibung jetzt nicht rausgenommen. Nee. Als für Dissens. Ja. Also das heißt ich dir. Doch, aber wie gesagt, ne, vielleicht machen wir da noch mal eine Aber es gibt ja trotzdem noch auch Absätze davon, auch wenn Du dich da schon interessiert hast, war ja trotzdem groß deiner Output, wenn Du sagst, hey, vielleicht arbeitest Du in 'nem Team, wo Du sagst, hey, diese Produkteentscheidung, ich geh damit voll viel mit. Ich muss bei 10 Prozent vielleicht noch mal hier und da sagen, so so würd ich's anders machen. Aber es werden gute Entscheidungen getroffen. Mein Job ist, die bestmöglich umzusetzen. Da ist ja superviel Schaffenskraft drin, indem wie Du bestimmte Anforderungen in welcher Granulatität's ja auch immer bekommst, dann umsetzt, wie Du's irgendwie designs, wie Du schreibst. Und das ist ja auch superviel, also bestätigen einfach darin, wenn Du was trotzdem gut entwickelst und gut umsetzt, so. Also das ist ja jetzt erst mal kein, es muss ja, musste ja nicht jeder vorher seine seine den Großteil seiner Motivation daraus ziehen, das Produkt auch immer mitzuschapen, so. Und ich würde sagen, ist wahrscheinlich eher der Großteil der Devs, die die ihr die ihre Bestätigung und ihr Begeisterung aus der Umsetzung von Dingen ziehen und nicht unbedingt federführend dafür sein müssen, was genau umgesetzt wird an jeder Stelle. Ja. Ich glaub, also ja, ich versteh, was Du meinst. Wir können da noch uns ewig im Kreis hättest. Ich glaub, wir lassen das hier lieber angesichts der Anbetracht der Zeit und sind dann durch für heute. Mich würde trotzdem interessieren, wenn ihr da draußen auch an AI Fatique war, glaub ich, das Ja, whatever, ne. Leidet oder das im Team beobachtet habt und vielleicht schon Ansätze habt, wie ihr damit umgeht, das könnt ihr uns gerne mal zuschicken. Ansonsten 1000 Dank für alle, die am Start waren. 1000 Dank für alle, die Zuhörer haben und wir hören uns nächste Woche wieder. Bis denn da. Bis dann auch. Tschau. Tschau. Tschau. Tschau. Tschüssi.",0.9921875,[138,146,149,152,156,160,163,166,169,174,179,184,187,191,196,199,203,208,212,217,220,223,227,229,233,237,242,245,247,250,254,258,262,267,270,273,277,282,287,291,294,297,300,304,308,313,317,322,327,333,338,342,345,348,352,357,361,365,368,371,376,379,382,385,387,392,395,398,400,404,408,411,413,416,420,424,429,432,437,442,445,451,454,456,461,463,468,471,476,479,484,487,490,495,500,503,506,508,511,515,518,521,526,530,533,537,540,543,547,549,554,557,562,565,568,570,573,576,580,582,587,590,595,599,604,609,612,615,617,620,622,627,631,634,640,645,648,654,659,665,668,673,677,679,684,687,690,693,696,698,701,706,708,712,717,723,730,736,739,745,750,755,759,763,767,772,778,781,784,787,791,797,799,802,807,812,817,821,824,829,834,838,840,843,848,850,854,857,862,866,868,873,876,878,880,885,887,891,896,899,904,910,915,918,920,923,928,932,937,941,944,949,955,959,963,968,971,973,977,981,985,988,990,994,998,1003,1006,1010,1013,1016,1018,1020,1025,1029,1032,1036,1041,1046,1049,1053,1056,1059,1063,1065,1068,1073,1078,1081,1083,1086,1089,1092,1094,1097,1102,1104,1108,1111,1115,1118,1122,1127,1131,1134,1137,1142,1145,1148,1153,1157,1160,1163,1165,1170,1173,1175,1179,1182,1185,1187,1192,1199,1202,1204,1208,1210,1213,1215,1219,1223,1226,1231,1234,1236,1238,1240,1242,1244,1246,1248,1251,1254,1258,1260,1265,1268,1271,1275,1277,1279,1281,1284,1287,1291,1294,1296,1299,1303,1306,1308,1310,1314,1319,1322,1324,1327,1332,1334,1337,1339,1341,1343,1346,1351,1356,1363,1367,1370,1376,1380,1383,1386,1389,1393,1396,1399,1402,1406,1410,1413,1416,1421,1424,1426,1428,1432,1435,1437,1439,1442,1444,1446,1448,1451,1455,1460,1465,1467,1469,1471,1473,1477,1483,1486,1488,1492,1494,1496,1499,1502,1506,1511,1514,1517,1520,1524,1528,1530,1533,1537,1539,1542,1546,1549,1554,1559,1565,1568,1573,1576,1578,1580,1582,1586,1593,1596,1599,1602,1606,1611,1614,1616,1618,1622,1626,1631,1633,1637,1640,1643,1646,1650,1654,1657,1661,1663,1665,1670,1673,1678,1680,1683,1686,1690,1692,1696,1700,1703,1706,1709,1713,1716,1718,1720,1724,1727,1730,1732,1734,1738,1740,1744,1746,1750,1755,1757,1762,1765,1768,1772,1774,1777,1780,1784,1786,1791,1796,1799,1801,1804,1809,1812,1814,1817,1820,1822,1824,1828,1833,1835,1837,1840,1843,1846,1850,1854,1857,1859,1862,1866,1869,1871,1874,1878,1881,1884,1886,1888,1891,1893,1896,1900,1902,1905,1907,1909,1911,1913,1918,1924,1928,1931,1934,1937,1939,1942,1946,1949,1952,1955,1959,1962,1966,1968,1971,1973,1975,1978,1980,1983,1986,1988,1991,1993,1998,2001,2003,2005,2009,2011,2013,2016,2020,2022,2024,2027,2029,2032,2037,2041,2043,2045,2047,2049,2053,2057,2059,2061,2063,2066,2072,2074,2077,2082,2084,2087,2089,2091,2094,2098,2101,2107,2111,2114,2117,2120,2122,2124,2129,2134,2139,2141,2143,2146,2148,2151,2155,2158,2161,2163,2166,2168,2170,2172,2175,2177,2179,2181,2184,2186,2191,2194,2197,2199,2205,2211,2216,2219,2222,2225,2227,2232,2235,2239,2241,2243,2245,2247,2252,2254,2257,2259,2261,2264,2266,2269,2271,2273,2278,2280,2283,2285,2288,2292,2294,2296,2298,2301,2303,2306,2312,2317,2322,2326,2330,2335,2340,2345,2351,2354,2358,2362,2365,2367,2370,2375,2378,2382,2384,2387,2392,2397,2400,2405,2408,2412,2416,2419,2422,2425,2429,2432,2435,2438,2441,2443,2446,2449,2452,2454,2456,2458,2460,2464,2468,2473,2476,2478,2480,2483,2485,2487,2492,2496,2498,2501,2504,2506,2512,2516,2521,2524,2529,2533,2536,2541,2544,2550,2552,2556,2558,2560,2562,2567,2570,2574,2576,2580,2582,2584,2587,2592,2595,2597,2602,2605,2609,2611,2613,2616,2618,2620,2622,2625,2629,2631,2633,2638,2640,2645,2650,2652,2655,2661,2663,2665,2671,2676,2679,2684,2687,2690,2692,2696,2701,2704,2708,2711,2713,2717,2720,2722,2725,2729,2732,2734,2736,2739,2742,2746,2751,2756,2759,2762,2766,2768,2771,2776,2778,2780,2782,2787,2791,2795,2798,2801,2803,2807,2810,2812,2814,2819,2822,2824,2827,2832,2834,2838,2840,2842,2844,2848,2851,2855,2859,2861,2864,2866,2868,2870,2875,2880,2883,2888,2890,2894,2898,2901,2903,2905,2907,2909,2913,2916,2920,2922,2926,2928,2930,2933,2935,2938,2940,2944,2949,2953,2957,2960,2962,2967,2971,2974,2976,2979,2981,2984,2986,2989,2994,3001,3004,3006,3009,3014,3017,3019,3022,3024,3027,3030,3034,3036,3041,3043,3046,3048,3050,3052,3054,3057,3062,3064,3069,3073,3075,3077,3081,3084,3086,3089,3092,3095,3097,3100,3103,3108,3114,3118,3122,3127,3131,3135,3139,3143,3147,3150,3154,3156,3158,3161,3164,3168,3171,3173,3175,3178,3182,3187,3190,3192,3195,3197,3199,3203,3205,3210,3214,3217,3222,3227,3229,3232,3234,3236,3241,3246,3251,3254,3258,3261,3267,3269,3272,3275,3277,3280,3283,3288,3290,3292,3294,3296,3299,3301,3303,3305,3308,3310,3312,3314,3316,3318,3321,3323,3325,3328,3331,3336,3341,3344,3348,3350,3352,3354,3356,3361,3364,3366,3371,3375,3378,3380,3385,3387,3390,3392,3395,3400,3404,3406,3409,3412,3415,3417,3419,3424,3426,3428,3431,3435,3439,3444,3447,3449,3453,3457,3459,3461,3463,3467,3472,3475,3478,3481,3484,3487,3489,3492,3494,3496,3499,3501,3506,3508,3512,3519,3523,3525,3527,3529,3531,3534,3536,3538,3540,3542,3546,3548,3551,3554,3557,3560,3562,3565,3567,3569,3571,3573,3577,3579,358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0: Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu 1 neuen programmierbaren News Ausgabe, heute schon in Kalenderwoche 8 20 26. Das Jahr ist quasi gefühlt schon gleich wieder rum, obwohl gefühlt gestern erst Silvester war. Ich bin Jan Gregor Ingo Riebel und mit mir im Studio sitzen\n\nSpeaker 1: Dave aka David Krusitzky. Moin. Dennis Becker und der Fabi Think, hallo.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das hat ja geklappt, als hätten wir das geübt. Das ist ja wunderbar. Wir wollen heute sprechen über den State of JavaScript Report über Warcraft, ich bin gespannt, über WebMCP und darum, warum AI uns alle fertigmacht. Aber vorher haben wir noch so ein paar Housekeeping News am Start und zwar einmal der Hinweis, dass ihr euch jetzt noch ganz schnell für das Meet-up anmelden könnt, am fünften März wieder bei uns in der Saline. Es geht Micro Interactions in UX, Design, Umsetzung und Implementierungen und das Ganze wird gezeigt von ein paar netten Kollegen von uns.\n\nAußerdem Julian\n\nSpeaker 1: Sven.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und Sven.\n\nSpeaker 1: Sau da. Also wenn dann\n\nSpeaker 0: dann beide.\n\nSpeaker 2: Wenn ihr jetzt zu 'nem kommt, dann zu dem. Ja, nee,\n\nSpeaker 3: das wird doch richtig. Das wird richtig gut. Ich merk ja auch die ganze Zeit, wie Julian da Feuer und Seele reingibt, von daher.\n\nSpeaker 2: Svens Talk hat ja schon eine gehaltene Waschwutsch schon sehr gehypt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Oh. Von daher, deswegen haben wir\n\nSpeaker 2: ja überhaupt dazu. Also der jetzt, ich glaub, der freu ich mich auch sehr drauf. Der\n\nSpeaker 0: wird doppelt geil.\n\nSpeaker 2: Da müsst ihr, also wenn ihr zu einem Meet App kommt, dann zu dem.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, ich werd kommen. Ich auch. Ich\n\nSpeaker 3: werd auch. Da weg.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das ist jetzt natürlich, also Fabi cooler Pitch, aber ist natürlich megaschwierig, jetzt das nächste Meet App noch anzukriegen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Woll ich auch noch. Wenn man zu\n\nSpeaker 0: einem wenn ihr leider nicht am fünften März kommen könnt, obwohl ihr unbedingt kommen wolltet, wie Fabio das gesagt hat, dann könnt ihr am neunten April ins nächste Meet-up kommen. Und zwar ist Julia Kordik bei uns vor Ort. Wir hatten ja mit ihr die Oh Gott. Podcastaufnahme gemacht über Coding Agents und sie hat son bisschen erzählt aus ihrer Arbeit bei bei Microsoft. Und das ganze Thema arbeiten wir noch mal bei uns vor Ort auf.\n\nSpeaker 1: So. War das war das nicht wer anderes, der bei bei, die bei Microsoft gearbeitet hat? Nee, das ist die einzige Nee, wir\n\nSpeaker 0: wir machen jetzt nicht wieder den Medium Witz hier, dass\n\nSpeaker 3: Medium hat nicht bei Microsoft gearbeitet. Oder hat sie bei Microsoft? Die kenn ich von Microsoft, ja. Okay, von Microsoft. Okay, das ist richtig,\n\nSpeaker 1: Und das langweilig war natürlich grad ein Scherz, deswegen auf euren Bezug auf Fabi. Auch 'n cooles Meet-up. Genau. Nee, nicht so\n\nSpeaker 3: cool wie das jetzt im März, aber Hat Fabi gesagt?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, Fabi.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich hab nette Sachen zu einem Meet-up.\n\nSpeaker 3: Also ich weiß,\n\nSpeaker 1: also ist ja eure Sache, was ihr erzählt. Ist ja eure Bühne macht, was ihr wollt\n\nSpeaker 0: mit der eurer Zeit. Wer noch mehr Talks will und programmierbar sehen will, kann quasi am zwölften März nach Dresden kommen und da Dennis auf der Dekompiled Konferenz sehen, nämlich auch auf der großen Bühne. Und Gott sei Dank ist er nicht nur Dennis auf der großen Bühne, sondern wir machen eine Liveaufnahme vor Ort im Rahmen der Konferenz und Julian und ich werden auf der Devland sein und da auch im Abendprogramm wahrscheinlich noch mal den programmierbar Contest, die Coding Competition, die wir auch auf den Ja, ja. Programmiercon hatten, noch mal in den Start bringen. Das stimmt.\n\nUnd wer keines von diesen Events schafft und uns trotzdem sehen will, der kann uns jetzt auch einfach auf Youtube anschauen oder auf Spotify\n\nSpeaker 3: Video irgendwas. Und bald auch bei Apple, oder?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, da arbeiten wir noch dran. Das klappt jetzt grad\n\nSpeaker 1: noch nicht\n\nSpeaker 0: so mit dem Hoster, so wie wir das wollen, aber das kommt hoffentlich auch bald.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Sorry, Dennis, worüber redest Du? Kurze Zweiter zusammengefasst. In Dresden.\n\nSpeaker 2: In Dresden. In Dresden.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich, das ist ja eine Live Podcast, ein Format, das wir zum ersten Mal machen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Oh. Und wer ist denn Jan und Du oder wer wer ist da live?\n\nSpeaker 1: Nee, Icker.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich bin ja gleichzeitig auf der Defland. Die ist am zwölften und Dreizehnten Du\n\nSpeaker 2: machst alleine Podcastaufnahme.\n\nSpeaker 0: Dennis macht allein, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Nein. Ich\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich hab auch schon Handelsschweiß im Gesicht, wenn wir das noch nicht tun.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja, das ist, das soll 'n bisschen weniger Dennis haben im Podcast\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich hab die Ehre, mit Pia Temple zu sprechen. Ab Pia ist Product Management oder Director of Product Management at Github. Oh. Und hält die Keynote auf der Konferenz. Mhm.\n\nUnd dann haben wir mittags einen Slot, ja, darüber zu sprechen, vor allen Dingen son bisschen AI Governance, wie welche welche was macht GitHub, son bisschen zu gucken, AI in sicheren Bahnen zu halten, wird son bisschen Kern des Themas sein. Und ja, aber auch mit durchaus gibt son Frage- und Antwort Tool auch da auf der Konferenz. Das heißt auch, das Publikum, was da ist, kann 'n bisschen Fragen einstreuen.\n\nSpeaker 3: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Bin 'n bisschen aufgeregt, weil das ist ja das erste Mal so Live. Setting live dann Ja. Auf 'ner Bühne Podcast zu machen. Aber wird, glaub ich, ganz cool. Und auch noch 2 andere Gäste schon klargemacht, die ich auch interviewe auf der Konferenz, die ja dann aber erst reguläre Folgen, rauskommen werden.\n\nSpannend.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja, wirklich spannend. Mhm. Ich bin ich bin für dich aufgeregt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Du kannst auch noch weiterhin mitkommen.\n\nSpeaker 3: Machen wir's zu zweit auf der Bühne? Ja. Oh, okay. Ja, Mayvie. Find ich gar nicht so unspannend.\n\nNa,\n\nSpeaker 1: siehst Du?\n\nSpeaker 0: Mayvie Mayvie. So, und bevor sich Dennis AI Governance kümmert, kann er vorher noch mal bei uns was erzählen zu dem State of JavaScript Report. Wir hatten ja, ich glaube, Anfang des Jahres über den State of HTML Report schon gesprochen. Das klingt sehr ähnlich. Ist es aus demselben Haus?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, das hast ja hoffentlich Du vorher recherchiert, bevor Du diese Frage stellst.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ich hab nur gesehen,\n\nSpeaker 0: das hatten wir schon mal, dachte, ja, State of irgendwas. Klingt doch so, als will man das sagen? State of.\n\nSpeaker 1: Gute Frage. Ich hab mich jetzt nicht noch mal da mit beschäftigt, wer eigentlich dahintersteckt und wer das macht. Wir hatten State of JavaScript, glaub ich, schon häufig hier im Podcast über in den letzten Jahren. Wer aber tatsächlich, das kenn ich bestimmt irgendwie parallel noch kurz, Weiß ich nicht, was die machen. Egal.\n\nAh doch, HTML gehört zu denen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also es sieht sehr ähnlich aus.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, das sind die gleichen Leute, die wohl ziemlich als One Man Show irgendwann 2016 angefangen haben, dieses ganze Ding zu tun und son Surrey Plattform zu sein eben für die unterschiedlichen Sachen. Ich glaub, was auch das Ganze vereint, macht schon Spaß, da mal 'n bisschen rumzuklicken. Das heißt, vor allen Dingen in der Einladung, dass ihr euch das auch mal anguckt, State of Jazz Punkt com, son bisschen euch da durchzuklicken. Und genau, JavaScript, da geht's letztendlich so alles, ja, Frontend, Backend Tools, die Frameworks, die da so draußen sind. Ich find das Intro irgendwie ganz, ganz süß, ist so.\n\nIst ja vor nicht allzu langer Zeit die Switch 2 rausgekommen von Nintendo. Und das war 9 Jahre, nachdem die erste Switch rauskam. Und so die Entwickler, die dafür entwickeln, ne, 9 Jahre lang irgendwie gleich in Frameworks, keine neuen Bugs, gleiche APIs. Und wenn man das dann vergleicht mit der JavaScript Welt, wo es die ganze Zeit irgendeinen neuen Scheiß gibt, den man theoretisch hinterherlaufen soll. Aber ja, daher ein bisschen mehr Chaos und von daher ganz interessant, was da so Neues kommt.\n\nVielleicht ein, 2 Sachen rausgepickt, weil wir häufig mal im Podcast darüber sprechen. Also es gibt verschiedenste Kategorien, in denen das son bisschen aufgeteilt ist. Und die werden dann immer bewertet nach, in verschiedensten Kategorien. Also wie viel wird es genutzt? Wie viel ist bekannt?\n\nWie hoch ist die Zufriedenheit? Ich glaube, ein Frontend Framework, was gehightet wird, ist.\n\nSpeaker 3: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ist zwar nicht mega verbreitet, also irgendwie so bei 10 Prozent, ist aber seit 5 Jahren. Ah, das heißt, das sind einfach viele, die das sehr feiern und wo ja tatsächlich auch son paar ja, Sachen wie hier Signals, kamen ja auch 'n bisschen da raus oder wurden dann noch mal populär durch. Also gehen wir einfach ein paar interessante Dinge, die dieses Framework ausmachen, was Developer feiern. Genau. Und ist da trotzdem noch nicht so die absolute Marktdurchdringung.\n\nSpeaker 2: Vielleicht fallen nicht so viele Leute dann rumpfuschen, deswegen bleibt's auch weiterhin.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das war auch mein erster Gedanke so. Wenn Du nicht alles vereinen willst und alles all Things for all people sein willst, vielleicht machst Du da\n\nSpeaker 3: einfach 'n besseren Job. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das kann sein, ja. Astro haben wir, glaub ich, irgendwie, weißt Du deine intern, wurd es zuletzt auch wieder irgendwo benutzt?\n\nSpeaker 0: Astro for Picks Webseite.\n\nSpeaker 3: Oh.\n\nSpeaker 2: Cloudflair.\n\nSpeaker 0: Cloudflair. Ja. Hatten wir auch irgendwann News.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Und ja, sehr zufrieden die Leute. Also ist da Nummer 1 Meta Framework aktuell bei 94 Prozent Zufriedenheit.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ist der Doktor S, die seid übrigens selbst mit Astro gemacht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber wahrscheinlich auch noch nicht seit 2016.\n\nSpeaker 2: Weil ich hab so nur bei der bei der\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich hab einfach Astro gebaut für die Webseite und dann halt irgendwie sonen Framework draus veröffentlicht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. Und ja, ich mein, der der, was hat mir noch, warte mal, ich wollte noch Selt sieht man auch, haben wir auch schon häufiger drüber gesprochen. Ist auch ein Framework, also wo wo's dann natürlich irgendwie die beiden Komponenten gibt mit Selt Kit und Selt selbst, was über die Jahre einfach an User immer son bisschen zugenommen hat und auch insgesamt eine weiterhin hohe Rate hat. Also Svelt Kit ist da auf Platz 2. Joa, ich glaube, das reicht erst mal so an ein, 2 Sachen.\n\nIch wollte noch euch fragen, ich finde jetzt natürlich grade, wenn ich klicke, diese Seite nicht, es gab so rausstechende Sachen und da war ein Framework, was ich noch gar nicht gehört habe. React. Und wollte, also hier gibt's einiges, was ich noch nicht gehört habe, aber Kennt ihr Hono?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Das ist doch son Dino Framework, Dino Webserver Framework, oder?\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, es ist 'n Back End Framework und ist auf jeden Fall hier auch als 1 der sehr wichtigsten irgendwie rausgestellt worden. Mhm. Neben Bann auch, als Bandler. Ja, ich find die Seite jetzt wieder nicht. Egal.\n\nAlso war auf jeden Fall was, was mir ins Auge sprang, was da jetzt irgendwie in so ein Level gekommen ist. Die haben sone Clusterung von wegen, wie wichtig sind diese Frameworks und wo haben die sich etabliert? Und da sind sie in das oberste s-Tier gerutscht. Und dann dacht ich, okay, krass, dass ich noch nicht davon gehört hab und trotzdem Ich muss mal muss mal Sebi, glaub\n\nSpeaker 2: ich, fragen. Ich glaub, Sebi hat uns, also hat ja alle, glaub ich, was Express, Chor und so weiter durch.\n\nSpeaker 3: Hono, glaub\n\nSpeaker 2: ich, hat er auch schon eingesetzt. Und\n\nSpeaker 0: na, hab ich\n\nSpeaker 3: sofort Ja,\n\nSpeaker 0: Pitch von Hono ist doch so, wir machen alles auf Webständerarts basierend und bauen quasi so wenig eigene Klassen- und Metamodelle wie wie notwendig so. Und dadurch soll's halt so superportabel sein und schnell. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja, aber krass. Also direkt mit was rausgekommen hier, ohne mal auschecken. Nice. Yuddy, das war's.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das war's. Dann hab ich als Nächstes auf der Liste, dass Dave was erzählen wollte zu Warcraft und gestern gesagt hat, oh mein Gott, er hängt wieder voll in Burning Crusade ab, weil das ist ja jetzt so in Classics wieder released worden. Und der erste Gedanke, der mir danach kam, Dave, war, bist Du überhaupt alt genug, original View gespielt zu haben?\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja, ja. Also Jan hat's richtig gesagt, ich bin wieder in Azeroth gefangen, leider. Ich hab ja ich hab ja mein Schultereckgelenk gesprengt und war dann nicht fähig, irgendwas zu machen. Aber da seh ich, WOW, also World of Warcraft ist 'n sehr unanspruchloses Spiel. Oh, ich seh schon die E-Mails sind angekommen, weil Du\n\nSpeaker 0: das hier sind. Das war ja\n\nSpeaker 2: alles voll. Superdreifach. Superan. Es ist ein\n\nSpeaker 3: nicht so anspruchsvolles Spiel, das man supereinfach mit nur der Maus spielen kann. Deswegen also perfekt eigentlich nur mit der mit dem rechten Arm. Nee, tatsächlich und ja, ich war alt genug. Ich weiß noch ganz genau, wie ich damals im Real mir Burning Crusade geholt habe und es war ab 12 und ich bin da genau 12 geworden. Deswegen Okay,\n\nSpeaker 0: also also bist Du quasi mit Burning Crusade aber eingestiegen, so.\n\nSpeaker 3: Genau, also bin damit eingestiegen?\n\nSpeaker 0: Vanille, ganz original so mitgekriegt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Nee, nee, genau, genau. Also aber ich find's schon, dass\n\nSpeaker 3: es son Nerddog ist, wo ihr beide, glaub ich, ja gar nicht\n\nSpeaker 2: Doch, ich, also ich war auf jeden Fall, ich bin die paar Jahre älter, im im Original gespielt zu werden.\n\nSpeaker 0: Echt, Du hast das hab ich\n\nSpeaker 2: dann aufgehört. Also das hab ich dann gar nicht mehr mitgemacht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich hab davor\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja, same. Ah okay. Und da warst Du auch Ja. Bei Warcraft 3 auch dabei? Oder war das Warcraft\n\nSpeaker 2: 3 hab ich nee, ich hab nee, hab ich, warcraft 3\n\nSpeaker 3: hab ich nicht gespielt. Ah, okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Der Massag hab ich Counter Strike gespielt.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ah, okay. Ja, stimmt, das dann echt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich hab Counter Strike, W0W, das waren eigentlich wirklich meine 2 Games, in der ich wirklich sehr viel Zeit drin gibt hab.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja. Ja, bietet auch sehr viel Potenzial dafür. Auch Potenzial dafür, Deswegen, also ich hab nur eine kleine News mitgebracht, weil ich das irgendwie ganz fand und mich grad diesen Nerd Kosmos befinde. Und zwar heißt das Ganze Warcraft CN für die Leute, die sagen, hey, das CN sagt mir was. Also es gibt ja diese Chat CN, was jetzt keine keine ist, die man über irgendwie so NPM oder so installiert, sondern einfach sone Ansammlung von verschiedenen Componits.\n\nMan kann sich daran bedienen. Vorteil ist natürlich, anders als wenn Du's über NPM installierst und dann quasi die Komponente einfach verwendest, kannst Du dir da komplett customizet.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das heißt,\n\nSpeaker 3: Du hast den kompletten Code und kannst dann sagen, hey, ich möcht an der Komponente noch mal irgendwie was anderes machen und kannst das dann deinem eigenen Code komplett verändern. Genau. Und da gibt's Warcraft CN, da hat der Entwickler die org dev, also auch sehr passend vom Namen her, so was entwickelt und hat verschiedene Komponenten bereitgestellt, die in dieser Warcraft Ästhetik da sind. Also\n\nSpeaker 2: Was sind Webkomponenten, ja, ist\n\nSpeaker 3: 'n Webkomponenten. Genau, genau, das sind Webkomponenten, genau. Genau und da haben wir verschiedene Sachen, ne. Wie einfach sone Karte, die aufkommt und genauso aussieht mit diesem Holzhintergrund und diesem Metall drumherum wie son Schild. Auch die verschiedenen Buttons, die man aus dem Spiel kennt.\n\nAuch die Drop down Menü, wo man dann verschiedene Sachen auswählen kann. Die Schrift sieht auch so sehr aus. Und insgesamt einfach, also ich hab was so angeschaut und hab mir so, ach schön. Und wenn ich jetzt irgendwie so mir vorstelle, ich hab son kleines privates Projekt, wo ich irgendwie eine Fantasy Seite oder so kreiere, werd ich mir das auf jeden Fall auf jeden Fall anschauen. Was ich, das\n\nSpeaker 2: ist, die News Case ist in 'nem private Fantasy Valley. Ich würd das, also\n\nSpeaker 3: ich würd's ja nicht beruflich benutzen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Warum nicht?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, wieso? Ich ich hab mich jetzt eigentlich schon voll darauf gefreut, dass hier so das als Overlay, ja, für Christmas dann mal kommt.\n\nSpeaker 3: Oh, ja. Ja, direkt nächster Pitch. Was ich aber sehr, sehr cool finde und das, also ist son bisschen so was Emotionales, der Entwickler hat das vor 'ner Woche oder so veröffentlicht und hatte da, glaub ich, irgendwie nur so 3 Komponenten, die man nutzen konnte. Und mittlerweile ist das da irgendwie Community Bewegung entstanden, wo wir da auch gesehen haben, GitHub Star sind so recht schnell angestiegen. Leute fügen da auch selbst noch mehr Sachen hinzu, wo man jetzt sagen kann, oh, Du hast hier irgendwie die Ork Fraktion, dann hast Du auch die Untoten und so ist alles so, dass die ist farblich anders irgendwie codiert.\n\nUnd das find ich irgendwie schön, dass da jetzt auch sone kleine Nerd Bewegung entstanden ist. Sehr holsam und Und Copyright gibt's da\n\nSpeaker 1: nicht oder so? Auf die Dinge.\n\nSpeaker 3: Oh, das\n\nSpeaker 0: ist ja mehr son Geschmacksmusterding, oder? Wenn das jetzt nur so aussieht wie son bekanntes UI. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Welche, aber auf welche hast Du denn sonen Copyright, das irgendwie,\n\nSpeaker 1: ich weiß nicht, wenn Du das so nennst, alles und irgendwo das 1 zu\n\nSpeaker 3: 1 so aussieht? Aber guter Punkt eigentlich. Also grad, ne, ich glaub, so Assets wären davon schon.\n\nSpeaker 1: Auch schon alt genug.\n\nSpeaker 3: Das ist schon das. Ja. Nee, warte doch, aber so, ne, weil das irgendwie so Holzhintergründe, die sind, glaub ich, da irgendwie schon rausgenommen oder irgendwelche Planeten. Na ja, gute Frage. Ja.\n\nAber es ist ja 'n schönes Projekt, also wovon vielleicht selbst auch son bisschen profitiert, dass das auch recht noch etwas erreicht ist. Genau. Ja. Ja. Genau.\n\nSpeaker 2: Wunderbar, wunderbar.\n\nSpeaker 0: Dann Wenn halt\n\nSpeaker 2: andere Games auf einmal anfangen, Warcraft C n zu nutzen und das vielleicht fangen sie dann an, irgendwie mal dagegen vorzugehen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Oh, ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Oder irgendwas. Also mal schauen, also die diese die die das Ganze vor Gericht werden wir natürlich auch begleiten. Der Gossip Podcast wieder.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Bleiben wir im Browser, wenn Dave seine Fantasy Page gebaut hat mit Warcraft c n und ihr die von euren ganzen AI Agents bedienen lassen wollt, die ihr ja wahrscheinlich mittlerweile zu Dutzenden laufen habt, dann hat Google was Neues für euch am Start, nämlich WebMCP. Wir haben vor Ewigkeiten hier schon mal so über klassisch MCP gesprochen, also so als MCP Server, mit dem man eigene Toolcalls im Prinzip bereitstellen kann. Und Web MCP stellt sich jetzt im Prinzip an, dasselbe zu sein, aber auf reiner Webseiten Client Ebene. So, das Ganze ist im Moment noch in sonem sehr sehr Early Preview Programm, kann man sich anmelden bei Google, dann kann man mal in die Dokumentation da reinschauen.\n\nHab ich mal gemacht. Und Sie verkaufen das im Prinzip als die bessere oder einfachere Variante zu MCP, weil Du eben nicht 'n eigenes Backend dafür brauchst. Du musst nicht eigene Endpunkte bereitstellen. Das Einzige in Anführungszeichen, was Du machen musst, ist auf deiner Webseite zu sagen so, hey, das sind hier Funktionen, die von AI bedient werden können. Da gibt's 2 Wege für.\n\nDas eine ist sone sehr deklarative API im HTML selbst. Also wenn Du son Formular hast, kannst Du sagen, das hier ist mein Suchformular, da kannst Du Folgendes eingeben. Oder wenn Du eine, weiß nicht, Du bist eine Flugbuchungswebseite, ja, und schaust dann hier, das ist der das das der Abflughafen, das ist der Ankunftszuhafen, das sind die Uhrzeit, das Datum, was Du suchst. Und hier ist der Button, den Du drücken musst und dann geht's irgendwie weiter, ja? Kannst Du das so so im Prinzip 'n bisschen semantischer machen oder Du kannst über sone imperative API direkt in Java Script Callbacks im Prinzip bereitstellen und sagen so, hey, wenn Du eine Flugsuche starten willst, das ist das JSON Schemema, das ich von dir brauche, die Flughäfen, Datum und Uhrzeit zu kennen.\n\nDann kannst Du diese Funktion hier triggern und ich geborene dir direkt eine zurück, die diesem Schema irgendwie folgen wird. Und dann wird im Prinzip die Webseite benutzt, ohne die Webseite zu nutzen, ne. Also im Prinzip dieselbe Logik, dieselben JavaScript Calls können gemacht werden, aber komplett an dem UI vorbei. Du kannst da natürlich auch\n\nSpeaker 2: keine HTML runtergeladen. Also nur der zumindest nur der Skriptteil davon oder was? Also Ja, die Seite wird\n\nSpeaker 0: schon regulär geöffnet und es wird auch gerendert, da kommen wir gleich noch zu. Okay. Und im Prinzip ist es dann auch Aufgabe von dir als WebMCP Anbieter dafür zu sorgen, dass UI und WebMCP son bisschen entzüngt bleiben, ne. Also wenn ich jetzt diesen imperativen Teil benutze, dann muss ich als Webseite schon auch irgendwie schauen, dass ich mein UI entsprechend anpasse, damit's\n\nSpeaker 2: man im Prinzip die Formular genutzt hätte, sowas\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, genau. Genau. So, ne, da dass das halt irgendwie auch alles passiert, weil der Use Case ist ja schon Oder andersrum, ist 'n ist eine legititive Frage. Ich hab dich auch gefragt, ist das eher son Agent, der son Headless Browser benutzt und ich gar nicht zugucke? Dann wär mir das halt komplett egal.\n\nSpeaker 2: Oder so.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Das\n\nSpeaker 2: ist vielleicht echt gar kein, ja, auf 'ner Übung Oder\n\nSpeaker 0: ist das mehr son son Cloud Co Working Ding, der halt an meinem Rechner irgendwie was macht in meinem Browser für mich oder zumindest denselben Browsercontainer sich irgendwie teilt, ja, schwierig. Weil man muss ja auch bedenken, Du musst ja bei ganz vielen Webseiten auch angemeldet sein und so was, ja? Also der braucht ja irgendwie deine Session, deine Credentials, deine keine Ahnung, er kann ja nicht einfach so drauf losrennen und irgendwas für dich tun. Aber schauen wir dann noch mal an. Also wie gesagt, man kann sich die in der Early Access, nicht Early Access, Early Preview, Early Access war das mit Steam, sich einmal anschauen.\n\nSie haben 'n cooles, kleines Inspector Utility damit veröffentlicht, wo Du im Prinzip in den Dev Utilitities dann so sehen kannst, okay, welche Function Calls werden hier bereitgestellt? Wie sieht irgendwie die dafür aus? Du kannst es im Prinzip direkt mal callen und so tun, als wärst Du quasi das LLM, zu gucken, wie sich das alles verhält, damit Du nicht noch 'n vorne dran brauchst, das alles debuggen zu können. Ja, wie gesagt, super-, superfrüh, ist auch noch hinter 2 Flex versteckt, die man mal so einschalten muss. Kann man alles tun, wenn man eine Betaversion von Chrome hat.\n\nUnd der Ja, Dennis?\n\nSpeaker 1: Macht der Satz so fertig. Sorry.\n\nSpeaker 0: Der Hauptpunkt ist, glaube ich\n\nSpeaker 2: mit dem Kopf zu spielen.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja, ja, ja, ja. Man muss mehr mehr, ne.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich glaub, der der große Unterschied ist halt, wenn man son zum Beispiel son son Playrite MCP Server wird, ne. Ich mach das manchmal während der Entwicklung, einfach hier sagen zu können, Cloud Code schau dir mal die Website an, guck mal, was da nicht funktioniert. Guck dir mal diesen Button an, blapper. Das halt super, super token intensiv. Ja?\n\nEine ganze Webseite parsen, irgendwie das ganze DOM irgendwie durchacker und gucken, was da gemacht werden muss. Das können ja viele schon, aber ist halt krass langsam und unzuverlässig. So, und ich glaube, mit so direkten Function Calls über Web MCP kann es halt krass viel einfacher sein, ohne dass Du halt 'n ganzen MCP Server und bla bla bla dafür bauen musst und Du musst eigentlich nur die Funktionen exposen in deiner Webseite, die Du ja schon da hast. So und jetzt kann Dennis kurz mit dem Kopf schütteln.\n\nSpeaker 2: Danke schön. Ja, glaub ich nicht dran.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also mein Take ist, das wird nicht fliegen. Das also das kommt mir wie son ganz komischer Layer vor. Also entweder ist es halt für Für die Faulen. Ja, man würde halt denken, na ja, nicht erst zum einen für die Faulen, aber zum anderen auch irgendwie für Webseiten, also wo es irgendwie nötig ist, das sozusagen noch zu haben, aber die implementieren das dann irgendwie auf die nächsten Jahre auch nicht. Also also, ne, jetzt viele Webseiten, die da draußen einfach nur rumgammeln.\n\nUnd bei den Neuen, ich glaub, da gibt's irgendwie bessere Wege darauf zuzugreifen als über diese diese Oberfläche.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wenn ihr\n\nSpeaker 1: jetzt an Booking dot com denken, die irgendwie halt Integration haben und so weiter. Also ich glaub nicht daran, dass es 'n großes Ding wird.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also ich war auch hin- und hergerissen. Ich aber auf der einen Seite dacht ich mir, das ist ja eigentlich auch 'n Problem. Also grade dieses Deklarative mit Du, ne, markierst einfach in deinem HTML, wie ist dieses Form zu benutzen und und bla bla bla. Das ist ja eigentlich 'n reines Semantikproblem. Also wenn man da mit superviel Aria und Labels und bla arbeiten würde, müsste das ja eigentlich heute schon krass maschinenlesbar\n\nSpeaker 2: sein. Ist ja auch.\n\nSpeaker 3: So,\n\nSpeaker 0: ja. Und da ist, glaub ich, der Schritt halt relativ gering. Und die Frage ist dann, bringt dir diese imperative API halt was, wo Du direkt irgendwie JavaScript Funktionalität exposen kannst, wo ich sagen würde, das ist wahrscheinlich da aber auch nur 'n Shortcut, weil da kann ja eigentlich auch keine Funktionalität hinter sein, die nicht auch schon in deinem UI irgendwie drin ist und irgendwie übers UI erreichbar gemacht.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ich glaube, da ist\n\nSpeaker 1: sone Zwischenlösung, die irgendwie mal ganz nett ist für sone Phase, aber die die mittelfristig halt völlig irrelevant ist.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, weil auch wenn Du überlegst, also ich hab auch überlegt, was sind denn jetzt die genauen Use Case? Deine Use Case, die Du vormarzt, ob 'n Flug buchen und so was, ist ja eigentlich, na ja gut, wenn grundsätzlich das Ganze über MCP funktionieren sollte, dann würd ich auch sagen, nicht über Web MCP, dann sollt, dann will ich ja sowieso nicht mit der Webseite irgendwie interagieren. Dann muss es halt irgendwie einen Service geben, mit dem ich direkt interagieren kann, das nur aus der AI herausmache. So ist das ja eigentlich der Use Case, wo ich dann hinkommen will. Und wenn ich sage, ich hab so was wie, also ich konnt mir gedacht, okay, vielleicht ist so was wie, ich bin selbst am Surfen, bin auf 1 Seite und sag ab 'nem schönen Prozess, so, nimm Du mal den Checkout für mich so.\n\nAlso ich bin keine, oder könnt ja auch Shopping sein so. Hab mir schon 'n paar Sachen ausgeht und sagst am Ende, boah, kein Bock so, mach Du den Rest so, check mal aus und geh mal bezahlen so ungefähr. Und dann ist es so, also wenn da so mitten im Prozess anfängt, würd ich eigentlich auch eher erwarten, dass die AIs dann irgendwann so smart sind, dass sie einfach mit diesen Seiten umgehen können und die Seiten nicht explizites bauen müssen, in jedem Schritt auf einmal die Seite steuern zu können. Sondern dass es dann dass eine AI oder dass wir generell in unserem in unserer Forschung von der AI davon abhängig sind, dass alle Seiten Integration für AI bauen, jede Seite noch mal steuern zu können. Da glaub ich eher, dass es generalistisch gelöst wird und nicht über son Web und jeder Seite muss was implementieren.\n\nUnd 'n anderen User Case, außer diesen so mittendrin seh ich nicht, weil für den Rest muss es ja generischere Schnittstellen geben als auf der Seite selbst. Weil ja auch, wie Du gemeint hast, mit Tokenintensität und so, es macht das zwar besser, dein Use Case, den Du vorhin beschrieben hast, wo mir einfach immer alles passt, aber ist ja trotzdem noch mal Mengen oder Faktoren schlechter, als wenn ich gar nicht die Seite aufrufen müsste.\n\nSpeaker 0: Na ja, aber Du rufst die Seite ja nicht mehr, also die Seite landet ja nicht mehr in deinem Kontext. Ja. Also wiederum. Das ist halt schon ultraperformant so, ja. Und das Einzige, was halt passieren muss, ist, dass der Browser an das LLM weiterreicht.\n\nHier auf dieser Seite hab ich diese 3 Sachen gefunden. Und das ist halt 'n sehr kleines, son son MCP Proxy sozusagen dann quasi nur noch.\n\nSpeaker 1: Die ganzen Informationen gibst Du trotzdem auch immer raus, auch wenn gar keine AI mit dir redet.\n\nSpeaker 3: Das heißt, da hast\n\nSpeaker 1: Du auch erst mal 'n riesen Overhead, einen Metainformationen, die\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also über die Leitung geht gleich viel. Es glaub, es geht nur was Land in dem Kontext. Und das kann ja dann sozusagen extrahiert werden. Ich glaub, das ist weniger,\n\nSpeaker 1: aber über die Leitung kommt erst mal mehr, weil über die Leitung\n\nSpeaker 3: kommt erst mal mehr.\n\nSpeaker 2: Die Seite ist erst mal theoretisch Aber gut, ich mein, das bisschen JavaScript. Ah, genau. Das\n\nSpeaker 3: Export. Das Also Das\n\nSpeaker 2: muss ich wirklich vernachlässigen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ich glaub auch.\n\nSpeaker 2: Aber ich weiß auch gar nicht, also das wär ja trotzdem aber nicht, also dass der Kontext kleiner wird dadurch, kann ich mir nicht vorstellen, dass das das der USP ist, der's dann zum Abheben bringen soll. Ich glaub, damit\n\nSpeaker 0: Also ich glaub, man muss ja immer auch gucken, wo's herkommt, so, ne. Wenn man's jetzt überlegt, Google macht das, was fürn Incentive hat halt irgendwie Google? Na gut, wenn das halbe Web halt irgendwie damit bedienbarer wird, dann ist halt Google, was irgendwie Automatisierung und Indizierung von dem halben Internet angeht, die haben halt schon 'n Incentive dafür so, ne. Ob das angenommen wird oder nicht, schauen wir mal.\n\nSpeaker 1: Für das halbe Internet, genau. Müssen's ja auch erst mal alle dann implementieren irgendwie. Oh. Na ja, egal. Ich glaube, dann dann dann schenken sich die Leute, weil die AI hätte das trotzdem machen können, auch wenn das MCP Ding nicht da ist.\n\nSpeaker 2: Denke auch. Ansonsten.\n\nSpeaker 1: Gut. Wunderbar.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wenn wir schon bei AI sind, dann, Fabi, erzähl uns doch mal, warum wir alle keinen Bock mehr auf AI haben.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, mit mit alle bist Du gemeint.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wieso bin ich da jetzt mit gemeint?\n\nSpeaker 1: Na ja, ist ja schon generell, sehr generalisierend zu sagen, weil wir alle keinen Bock mehr auf AI haben. Bisschen polarisierend hier.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das ist gab es ist richtig auf Krawallgebühlt, weil's auch mal unterbinden. Ja. 1 muss aber für Klicks sorgen hier, Dennis. 1 muss für die Klicks sorgen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ich erklär dem Dennis jetzt mal, warum der keinen oder warum der Dennis am Ende der Einzige ist, der noch Bock auf AI hat. Und all seine Entwickler, die unter ihm sind, sagen so, Dennis, hör mir auf mit der Scheiße.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich hab Bock auf AI und ich leide trotzdem jetzt schon, obwohl ich sehr wenig mache unter dem, was Du jetzt erklären wirst. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, das wär nämlich jetzt auch mal mein meine Frage gewesen, nachdem Du letzte Woche 'n bisschen mehr damit gemacht hast, wie fertig Du bist. Aber das schauen wir dann gleich mal.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. So, dann darf ich doch vielleicht, genau, lassen wir mal erzählen, worum's irgendwie geht. Genau. Es geht ja nicht keinen Bock mehr auf Es geht geht einen Blogbeitrag, der jetzt gar nicht so viral gegangen ist, weil so wir haben hier bisschen intern drüber diskutiert. Der ist in meiner Timeline gespürt worden von jemandem Siland Karre, der hat einen Blog und ist auch so im AI Space unterwegs, hat zum Beispiel so was gebaut wie Distill, wo's son bisschen im Kontext geht, also LLM Kontext sozusagen, sie kleiner zu machen, eher auf mathematischen Modellen basiert, das Ganze zu machen, als jetzt 'n LLM noch mal über sonen Prompt drüber zu schicken.\n\nUnd grundsätzlich auch für Firmen arbeitet rund im im AI Space, also so Framework gebaut hat, wie Agenten sich autorisieren können. Also jemand ist, der sehr affin dafür ist. Und einen Artikel geschrieben hat mit dem, oder 'n Blogbeitrag mit dem Titel. Und ich glaub son bisschen die Grundthese, die er macht und dann mit in verschiedene Bereiche irgendwie darauf eingeht, ist, dass es dass es das Paradox gibt durch die Arbeit mit AI und Agenten von sehr viel höherer Produktivität, aber auch sehr viel höherer Ausgelaugtheit. Und bei ihm am am Ende des Tages auch landend in einem Burn out durch die neue Arbeitsweise, die sozusagen kommt damit, dass man mit AI jetzt zusammenarbeitet.\n\nUnd son paar Thesen ist, die er dir durchgeht. Also grundsätzlich man natürlich erst mal sagt, so durch diesen Produktivitätsboost, den man mit AI hat und wenn man sie auch so darauf einlässt, ist ja schon super krass einfach erst mal, wie viel produktiver ist, wie man wo man vorher vielleicht in einem Task gearbeitet hat, mittlerweile auch an mehreren Tasks parallel arbeitet. Ja, so, die wir auch immer wieder in den AI News diskutiert haben jetzt mit den ganzen Tools, die wir jetzt irgendwie hatten, jetzt auch grade mit OpenAI, was wieder 'n neues Tool da vorausgebracht hat, auch Parallelisierung besser zu machen, ist es so, dass man ja eigentlich in seiner Rolle immer mehr hin zu einem und Orchestrierer kommt als zu einem Creator so. Und das heißt, dass man eigentlich die Arbeit, was vorher so, sag ich mal, die Schaffenshürde relativ hoch war, Dinge, die wir auch schon mal diskutiert haben darüber so, dass man gesagt hat, man ist selbst, man kreiert selbst so Teil der Arbeit, wenn man im Teamarbeit, ist auch Reviewarbeit, aber man's ja da auch eher darauf verlassen kann so, hey, ich kenn meine Teamkollegen so, ich weiß, worauf ich vielleicht achten muss.\n\nWenn ich irgendwie Reviews durchgeh, muss ich nicht Zeile für Zeile durchgehen. Bei jeder Zeile denken, oh, da könnt jetzt 'n Fehler drinstecken, sondern sagen, hey, den Dennis\n\nSpeaker 1: kenn ich, den Dave kenn ich. Ich kenn den seine Steckenpferde, da muss ich\n\nSpeaker 2: vielleicht 'n bisschen genauer schauen. Hier weiß ich, okay, ist der Opa eigentlich immer ziemlich gut und kann mich vielleicht drauf verlassen. Aber grundsätzlich ist es jetzt so, je mehr wir automatisieren, je mehr wir AI orchestrieren, ist halt dieser Review Part unseres Jobs nimmt den Großteil eigentlich unserer Zeit son bisschen bisschen ein. Und dass darin eigentlich erst mal so der Part steckt, dass das eigentlich eine ganz andere Jobbeschreibung ist, als sie das vorher son bisschen war. Also vorher, es es ist einfach so, wie ich meine Zeit im im Alltag verbringe, etwas ganz anderes.\n\nUnd ich weiß nicht, wie's wie's vor vor AII bei euch auch war so, der Reviewteil, ich sag mal, in meiner Entwicklerzeit war das nicht der Teil, der mir am meisten Spaß gemacht hat an meinem Job so, aber er halt notwendig war, in einem Team gut zu funktionieren und das definitiv Sinn gemacht hat. Aber der Part war, den ich eher notdürftig gemacht habe als mit dem großen Elan. Und jetzt, wenn man sich das Ganze jetzt anschaut, ist es so, man hat jemanden, den man reviewen muss und vor allem eben nicht mehr davon ausgehen kann, deterministisch oder auch, also deterministisch oder so nicht, aber uns irgendwie auch nicht drauf verlassen kann, ja, die Bereich macht die AR schon immer gut und die nicht, sondern im Endeffekt in dem sich wandelnden und schnell bewegenden Bereich, in dem wir sind, ist es ja auch so mit neuen Modellen und so was, was vorher irgendwie 'nem Prompt, den der vorher immer relativ gleichmäßig denselben Output gebracht hat, bringt jetzt etwas ganz anderes. Ich kann probieren, irgendwie meine Proms möglichst gut irgendwie zu designen. Aber im Endeffekt muss ich sagen, eigentlich muss ich am Ende alles trotzdem noch mal durchschauen und kann mich eigentlich erst mal auf nichts verlassen, auch wenn die grundsätzlich besser werden.\n\nTrotzdem kann ich mich eigentlich erst mal auf keine einzelne Zeile son bisschen verlassen. Dazu dann natürlich auch noch diese Parts mit so dieses, er hat's jetzt genannt, Prompt spirals, also dass man irgendwie anfängt, irgendwas zu prompt. Und man findet ja, ah, jetzt bin ich 75 Prozent Output. Ich mach dann 'n bisschen, das mach ich bei 80 Prozent Output, ah, noch 'n Stückchen und so. Und am Ende landet man vielleicht sogar wieder bei weniger Prozent oder bei nur minimal mehr Prozent, weil man gar nicht ganz weiß, wie viel Input muss ich denn noch geben, einen besseren Output zu bekommen?\n\nWann ist der Moment, wann ich vielleicht doch wieder selbst implementiere oder wann ich mich auf die AI verlasse? Und damit als letzter Punkt, den er noch son bisschen aufgemacht hat, die Skill Atropie hat er sie genannt. Also dass er sagt so, hey, früher war er irgendwie supergut darin, irgendwie am Whiteboard irgendwie Lösungen zu skizzieren und irgendwie Probleme zu durchdenken. Und dieser Part mit irgendwie Probleme zu durchdenken, ist eigentlich sonen son son Skill, den er absolut irgendwie verliert dadurch, dass er sich halt eigentlich alle mental schwierigeren Aufgaben häufig sagt, so gut, die AR kann's ja dann, lass ich die AR machen. Und genau, er am Ende über 2 Dinge redet.\n\nSo einerseits, dass er halt merkt so, dass dass wir, dass wir als als Industrie ja so oder so schon nicht gefeit davor waren oder eher anfällig dafür waren, dass Leute an Burn out leiden, so allein schon, was vor dem Speed irgendwie anging und irgendwie die Arbeitslast, die man irgendwie hatte. Und jetzt aber durch die Arbeit mit AI diese Gefahr einfach noch sehr, sehr viel höher ist, weil wir vorher natürliche Limits waren mit, okay, 'n bestimmtes Problem braucht eine gewisse Zeit. Es braucht eine gewisse Zeit, irgendwie vielleicht auch Probleme zu recherchieren. Ich kann sie in Ruhe durchdenken. Es gibt einfach 'n natürliches Limit, wie viel ich an 'nem Tag schaffen kann.\n\nHat sie einfach jetzt komplett verschoben und die Arbeit hin zu, denk ich, eher Arbeit, die uns allen wahrscheinlich weniger als mehr Spaß macht. Und zwar da eher der zu sein als derjenige, der was erschafft. Und genau, eher son paar Dinge auch aufgeschrieben hat, deswegen das damit würd ich jetzt, werd ich bei erst mal bei dem Tag son bisschen aufhören, weil ich gern wissen wollte, wie's wie's euch damit geht so. Ob ihr dem erst mal folgt, irgendwie ähnliche Effekte seht, dann hat er noch 'n bisschen darüber geredet, was er jetzt mittlerweile tut, dem son bisschen entgegenzuwirken. Aber ich muss erst mal sagen, es hat auch, glaub ich, bei uns hier in der Firma, zumindest bei einigen Verkehrs, irgendwie son Gefühl, was ich komplett irgendwie nachvollziehen kann, dieses irgendwie sehr viel ausgelaukt sein von 'nem Arbeitsalltag mit der Orchestrierung von AI, als man das vorher war.\n\nGenau, mit mir hat's auch total resoniert und ich mich würde erst mal interessieren, was ihr was ihr so dazu denkt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also ich ich bin da auch voll dabei. Ich wollt nur 2 Punkte ergänzen. Das eine, Dennis hatte ja letzte Woche bei uns diese AI Dates, AI Coffees veranstaltet, wo wir auch mal son bisschen in dem Team darüber gesprochen haben. Und was da 'n ganz interessanten Take fand oder einfach vorher nicht so dran gedacht hab, war das das auch unseren Designern genauso geht. Ja, also wir reden da immer nur so kommend\n\nSpeaker 3: warum aus\n\nSpeaker 0: dieser Brille mit, na ja, wir haben hier Code Review und wir gucken hier viel Code an und bla. Aber ich hab da mit unser Designer angesprochen und jemand auch gesagt, na ja, ist halt für uns genau dasselbe, ne? Wir generieren hier so stupide Bilder vor uns her im Prinzip und hoffen, hier mal was anzupassen und da mal was zu machen und so. Aber dieses dieses Phänomen, was er da in diesem Blogpost beschreibt mit und Review ist Training, Das ist halt für im Prinzip alle so, ja. Und also wahrscheinlich sogar Ist das auch bei\n\nSpeaker 2: bei Design sogar fast noch schlimmer. Ich hör das\n\nSpeaker 1: ja jetzt ja\n\nSpeaker 2: auch dadurch, dass wir superviel Image machen so. Dadurch, dass der mit jedem prompt eigentlich, also grad das Verändern, so das iterative Verändern viel, viel schwieriger ist so. Du machst ja auch immer so, ah, das ist schon gut. Kleinigkeiten gefallen mir noch nicht. Und dann machst, probierst einfach noch mal das gleiche Image zu generieren, weil mit demselben Input dann auch irgendwie die Qualität dann immer flöten geht.\n\nUnd ich mein, immerhin bei Code ist es so, dass ich bestimmte Teile, irgendwie Teile schau mal, schau\n\nSpeaker 3: mal, dass\n\nSpeaker 2: noch mal das anfenne und noch mal hier was. Und bei Bild ist ja wirklich so, prompt rein, Image raus, wenn's nicht funktioniert hat, noch mal neu den prompt, weil Image rein, kann ich auch nur bedingt häufig machen, weil am Ende, wenn ich's zehnmal mach, ist die Qualität so, dass es gar nicht mehr funktioniert. Also ich fand wirklich, da hatt ich echt, ich hatte 2 sehr intensive Tage, wo ich probiert hab, son bisschen das Prompt Design für unsere Images zu machen. Und ich wirklich 2 Tage, wo ich gemerkt hab, boah, ich war danach vom Kopf her so fertig davon, weil's irgendwie war. Man war die ganze Zeit in diesem Feeling von, ah, man ist so bisschen kurz davor und dann sind manchmal 3 Stunden flöten gegangen.\n\nMan dacht so, ich bin aber, bin ich jetzt eigentlich weitergekommen oder bin ich zurückgelaufen? Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Und der der zweite Punkt ist, weil Du so sagtest, na ja, Review war nicht so der Teil, der dir früher immer Spaß gemacht hat. Ich glaube, Review kann schon auch son sehr befriedigenden Moment haben, wenn man das mit Menschen zusammen macht, weil man sagt, ey guck mal, ne, ich ich Review jetzt hier den Code von 'nem von 'nem Junior, der von jedem der neuen Team ist. Ich erklär dem was und bla. Und dann denkst Du dir am Ende na ja, der hat jetzt halt was gelernt.\n\nUnd das nächste Mal wird es besser und Du hast da halt so, das ist son Invest und irgendwann gibt's da 'n Return. Aber wenn Du halt deinem Coding Agent fünfmal erklärst, warum halt an der Stelle das nicht so zu tun ist, ja, natürlich kannst Du's irgendwann 'n bisschen in deine Agents übernehmen und 'n paar Roots schreiben und so, aber es ist halt, da ist nicht dieses organische Wachstum drin, ja. Es fühlt sich nicht wie son sinnvoller Zeitinvest an, irgendwie so l m generierten Code irgendwie noch mal zu reviewen und anzupassen. Weil die Chance, dass es halt beim nächsten Mal noch mal oder anderweitig aufpoppt, halt irgendwie schon hoffentlich größer ist als beim beim Menschen, ja, der der vielleicht eher was gelernt hat aus der der Nummer so, ja. Da willst Du Das sind\n\nSpeaker 1: wir lernen grade sehr große Hoffnungen. Und mich, na ja, so letzte Woche einiges einiges ein Code gerivühlt, den ich zusammen mit Claudia zusammen gehackt habe. Und die Hoffnung besteht, dass es besser ist.\n\nSpeaker 2: Aber ich mein diesen ganzen Part, genau, dieses so, man investiert und es sind ja erst mal Zeit, die am Ende dann aber einfach nur verloren ist, weil man muss es im Endeffekt kontinuierlich machen und der Prozess wird dann natürlich nicht besser. Da hat er in seinem, sie dann in seinem Artikel auch noch mal eigentlich das Gleiche gesagt bei Dingen, was was den die Optimierung des eigenen AI Prozesses angeht, also wie ich AI nutze. Sowohl er meinte so, dass er im letzten Jahr irgendwie 2 Wochen irgendwie super fein granularprom betrieben hat, sich da irgendwie Librarys für geschaffen hat, wo er dann irgendwie eine Versionierung davon auch hatte und irgendwie für bestimmte Modelle da so wirklich seine bis ins Detail designt hatte. Und da irgendwie kam 'n Woche später 'n neues Modell und dann hat er gesagt, ja gut, eigentlich sind jetzt, was vorher irgendwie ich mit meinen Singlesshot Templates irgendwie gemacht habe und irgendwie mein ist jetzt mit 'nem einfachen eigentlich jetzt schon besser als vorher war. Und er irgendwie sagt so dieser, Du hast so viele Momente von grade wie wie ja auch AI Tools und so was, wie wie schnell's irgendwie gehypt wird.\n\nWeb MCP als Beispiel jetzt wieder so, wo Du dich irgendwie reinfuchsen kannst und irgendwie 2 Monate später ist schon wieder so, hey, es ist einfach hier jetzt wieder was komplett anderes und so. Wo ist es wirklich, was sind die Themen, die ich mir jetzt wirklich aneignen muss, die mir irgendwie 'n Skill bringen, wo ich später 'n Vorteil davon habe? Und was ist etwas, wo man sagt, das ist jetzt kurz Thema, aber bei neuen Modellen ist es vielleicht schon wieder gar kein Thema. Und so die Frage, wo investiere ich meine Zeit dran? Was ist wirklich nachhaltig und was ist im Endeffekt vergeudete Mühen?\n\nSo. Und also da ist ja Review 'n sehr gutes Beispiel von dir noch mal, Jan, aber er sagt eigentlich generell auf allgemein, auf die Adaption von neuen AI Tools. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ich glaub, das trägt auch voll dazu bei, dass man sich ausgeloggt fühlt. Also ich glaub, er hat's in dem Artikel beschrieben als. So, man hat immer das Gefühl so, ich muss da hinterherkommen, oh, neues Modell, ich muss es austesten, oh, ist es besser. Aber man eigentlich nie auf 'nem Standard ist, dem allen gefällt. Also quasi, wenn man denkt, okay, das ist jetzt 10 Prozent besser, oh, dann musst Du ja's nutzen.\n\nDas andere ist ja jetzt auch parallel rausgekommen, wo sind die Unterschiede und so. Und ich glaub, das trägt dazu auch noch bei, nie so auf 'nem zufriedenstellenden Standard zu sein, ne. Anders Und\n\nSpeaker 2: das, was wenn Du was gelernt hast, so oder so, das sind dreimal schon wahrscheinlich wieder komplett obsolet, was Du da gelernt hast, so. Ja. Das heißt, Du optimierst eigentlich immer nur was für den Status quo. Und der Status quo erinnert sich so schnell, dass optimieren für den Status quo sich eigentlich gar nicht wirklich lohnt. Aber andererseits fühlt sich's auch gleichzeitig so an, als würde man sonst komplett abgehängt werden.\n\nSpeaker 3: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also deswegen Ja, auch im kleineren find ich, ist, also das wär jetzt eher dann auch 'n bisschen langfristig, wenn Du, ne, Weiterbildung und wie viel investierst Du. Aber muss auch, also ich hab auch festgestellt, auch allein dieses, also dieses Parallele ist, glaub ich, einfach was, was irgendwie 'n bisschen fertigmacht. Ich würde sagen, ich hatte ganz selten als Entwickler früher das Gefühl, jetzt, ne, besonders ausgelaugt zu sein abends oder dass am nächsten Morgen jetzt, oh, jetzt sind ganz frische Ideen, das ist mal passiert oder so, dass am nächsten Morgen man klar drauf geguckt hat, aber so grundsätzlich hatt ich kein Problem mit dem Arbeitstag so. Und ich hab jetzt ja lange nicht mehr entwickelt und jetzt aber die letzten Tage die Möglichkeit gehabt, 'n bisschen mehr wieder an der Programmierbarwebsite und Automatisierung da zu machen und das halt komplett mit Cloud gemacht. Und ich muss sagen, obwohl ich mich als jemanden, also ich schwärz mich als jemanden an, indem das eigentlich sehr gut liegt, parallel die ganze Zeit Kleinigkeiten zu machen, weil ich das auch im Alltag, ne, es kommen immer irgendwie Themen, ich mach kurz was und so.\n\nIch switche dauerhaft Kontext und sehe das als 1 meiner Stärken. Und und trotzdem war's da bei mir abends so, dass ich dachte, ach komm, irgendwie ist mir scheißegal. Also ich ich hab versucht, so parallel son bisschen Notizen zu machen schon. Okay, hier dem Thread muss ich gedanklich noch daran danken, da muss ich vorher auch noch nie gemacht hab, irgendwie viel Notizen zu machen, was als Nächstes kommt. Und dann einfach so unterbewusst gemerkt, ey, ich war irgendwie danach fertig und abends und am nächsten Tag dann wieder, also ging dann wieder besser.\n\nDas hat natürlich auch gleich mehr Spaß gemacht. Aber da einfach up to date zu bleiben so, was sind eigentlich die Gedanken? Weil Du immer nur so kurz in diesem Gedankenfenster bist, ach, hier war eigentlich das Problem. Und das hat ja schon relativ viel Kontext irgendwie. Warum mach ich das?\n\nWo wollt ich drauf achten? Was wollt ich noch mal kontrollieren? Und das dann halt komplett zu switchen zu 'nem ganz anderen, ach, das ist eine auch eine coole Thematik. Und noch mal mehr vielleicht auch, weil AI so viel ermöglicht, auch noch mehr zu machen, als man früher gemacht hätte, ne. Wo man jetzt so denkt, ach ja, krass, ist ja eigentlich cool, wenn wir das auch noch hätten.\n\nOkay, ist ja kein Problem. Ich kann ja einfach nur schnell eine LinkedIn loslagen, wie er das macht so. Hättest Du halt vorher nicht gesagt, ja, ich bau das Feature noch grade schnell mit ein, sondern hat aber gedacht, ja, komm, das ist einfach der Status quo und fertig.\n\nSpeaker 2: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und so geht man halt immer auch noch einen Schritt weiter, was irgendwie die Qualität und den Umfang angeht. Und Ja. Das irgendwo zu begrenzen, war's wahrscheinlich schon Sinn. Oder irgendwie halt Wege zu finden,\n\nSpeaker 2: zu gehen.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja. Ja. Ja. Aber würd ich sagen, das ist auch eigentlich so der der größte Punkt, was Du gesagt hast mit dem Kontext wechseln, weil so wie Du beschrieben hast von wegen, also Du, Fabi, von wegen, man ist zeitlich limitiert durch den Tasks. Es gab ja einfach Tasks, da hat man einen Tag drangesessen, dann vielleicht noch mal 'n Review gemacht und das war's.\n\nSon, wie Du das bestimmt erinnerst, Du hast ja irgendwie so 5 Sachen parallel gehabt und dann immer auch drauf zu achten, was war hier wichtig, was war da wichtig? Ich glaub, also das ist allein schon anstrengend so. Sich, also man kann nie in son Tunnel kommen, was, glaub ich, bei vielen voll wichtig ist, sonen Fokus zu haben und einfach mal 2, 3 Stunden durchzuballern, bevor man durch irgendwie 'n Meeting oder so dann unterbrochen wird. Und allein, dass das fehlt und man das immer so einfach parallelisieren muss und nie diesen Fokus bekommt, ich glaub, das ist auch sehr, sehr anstrengend einfach. Also von daher stimm ich da, glaub ich, 100 Prozent zu.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und auch da wird's ja megasppendend, wie\n\nSpeaker 2: das ist, ne. Ich werd\n\nSpeaker 1: mir schon mal drüber diskutiert, das letzte Mal, glaub ich, dass gefühlt unsere Tasks aktuell, die wir in angeben, auch noch irgendwie relativ kleinteilig sind. Wo wir jetzt irgendwie Laufzeiten haben von, weiß ich nicht, 5 Minuten, 10 Minuten, aber noch nicht so irgendwie, dass wir sagen, okay, der arbeitet jetzt 'n halben Tag oder 'n Tag dran und dann guck ich mal, ne, was man ja teilweise auch schon liest. Wenn das mehr noch dahin geht, ne, dass Du irgendwie noch größere Blöcke hast, die noch größere Abstände haben, wo man sich dann irgendwo damit beschäftigen kann danach, dann reduziert es das vielleicht auch wieder, das Problem 'n bisschen. Und trotzdem ist ja die Frage, was füllst Du die Zeit, in der Du praktisch, ne, grade auf einen Task wartest, was ja sehr spannend wird, wie wie was da sinnvoll ist in der Zukunft.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, aber ich glaub halt auch son bisschen dieser Partner, ich sag mir hatten wir im letzten Mal in der News Folge über Security Probleme mit AI und so. Und ich glaube auch schon, das ist auch das, was Du in dem Artikel meint, son bisschen diese Fatique, die man dadurch bekommt durchaus Also selbst wenn es dann länger läuft, ist es am Ende so, Du wirst ja immer mehr in die Rolle kommen, ich entscheide, ich bewerte, ich Review so. Und ich glaube schon, dass diese so auch einfach Taubheit irgendwann zu sagen, so, ich hab gar keine Lust mehr, jetzt irgendwie diese Entscheidung zu treffen, jedes Mal noch mal drüber zu gucken und noch mal die Dinge dazu sein, dass jetzt irgendwie Reviewd und irgendwie sicherzugehen, dass alles irgendwie passt, sodass Du, glaub ich, superschnell in dieses Mentallding dann von reinkommst, ja, ah\n\nSpeaker 3: Wird schon passen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Wird schon passen, so ungefähr. Und weil weil's halt nicht so ist, so, Du bist nicht derjenige, der's und irgendwie baut und irgendwie auch vielleicht auch einen Stolz damit verbindest, dass Du irgendwie eine gute Arbeit abliefern willst, besonders irgendwann ist so, ey, wenn ich am Ende echt nur noch irgendwie Outputs bewertet so, da wird, also keine Ahnung, bei mir wird da auf jeden Fall der Schlendrian irgendwie reinkommen und so. Also so Das\n\nSpeaker 3: find ich, das find ich, das ist echt 'n guter Punkt, so also Punkt Ownership. Weil ich muss sagen, ich fand das auch damals geil so irgendwie, wenn ich son Feature entwickelt habe, so, wir haben als Ziel natürlich entschieden, was machen wir? Aber dann so, ich hab das gebaut und das ist im Spiel, ich hab das auch irgendwie so, oh geil, das hab ich gebaut so. Das hab ich voll gern benutzt so. Und jetzt ist so, na ja, also ich hab's nur orchestriert so.\n\nHab ich da auch genau diese diese Wertschätzung für meine Arbeit selbst so? Wahrscheinlich nicht am Ende. Und das, also Das ist ja aber\n\nSpeaker 0: 'n Du Problem. Also Yeah, hey. Ganz ehrlich, ich glaub, Ich glaub, da kommen wir nicht drum rum irgendwie zu sagen, ist egal, ob Du's selber geschrieben hast oder ob Du's nur orchestriert bist orchestriert hast, Du musst halt schon irgendwie Verantwortung und Ownership dafür übernehmen. So, und das ist, glaub ich, was, was son Mindsetwechsel halt ist und für uns wahrscheinlich son bisschen schwieriger, weil, ne, wie Du grade beschrieben hast, Dave, wir kommen halt irgendwie oder wir wir bringen sone Vergangenheit mit, wo Ownership halt noch anders ausgesehen hat. Aber ich glaub, grade für Leute, die halt jetzt irgendwie damit anfangen, die haben halt schon auch Ownership, wenn sie halt sagen, Du.\n\nIch hab hier was zusammen gepromtet und das hat mein Agent geschrieben ohne mich. Aber das hat halt mein Agent mit meinen Instructions und meinen Skills und meinem Kontext und bla und das gehört dann schon irgendwie also son bisschen zusammen. Was ich noch sagen wollte zu Fabi eben wegen der wegen der Review, ich glaube, was sich halt auch ändert, ist son bisschen die die Grundhaltung, mit der man dann sone Review rangeht, weil zumindest, also keine toxischen Teams und so was, ne,\n\nSpeaker 2: aber ich Sei, sei\n\nSpeaker 1: sei also ehrlich.\n\nSpeaker 3: Nein, nein. Ich mein\n\nSpeaker 0: jetzt nicht wegen dir Dennis oder so, aber früher hast Du ja schon so gedacht, na ja, jeder Developer, dessen Code ich dir anguckt, der kommt ja mit Best intentions hier irgendwie her, ja. Und wenn ich jetzt an diesen Polryquest denk Dennis, wo wir diese Redirects uns angeschaut haben, ne, und dann die AI so sagt halt, ja, ich nutz hier dieses Verselle Feature und automatisier die Redirects im Hintergrund und so. Und dann guckt man den Code an und denkt sich so, nee, das passiert hier einfach nicht. So, das hast Du dir zwar ausgedacht und dieses Feature von Verselle gibt es auch, aber es wird halt einfach nicht genutzt. Das heißt, man muss halt schon auch so mit soner halben Stufe Misstrauen mehr irgendwie da reingehen.\n\nUnd das ist ja auch einfach kein kein entspanntes gesundes Arbeiten so, ne? Wenn Du die ganze Zeit son sone gewisse Anonymität deiner Arbeit gegenüber hast.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber auch hier könnte man jetzt argumentieren, auch 'n temporäres Ding, ähnlich wie Web MCSP, so, ne, die Qualität die die Qualität wird insofern steigen, dass man sich teilweise darum nicht mehr kümmern muss. Das löst noch nicht unser Arbeitsproblem. Also ne, wir müssen trotzdem irgendwie gucken, wie der aufgeht in der neuen Rolle so. Das ist mit Sicherheit eine Herausforderung, die wir lösen müssen und wo vielleicht auch nicht jeder Bock drauf hat tatsächlich auf auf die Art der Arbeit dann. Aber vielleicht wird zumindest dieser Code 'n bisschen, ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das glaub, auf jeden Fall, ja. Aber ich find übrigens auch, weil Du grad meintest mit irgendwie, wird ja schon irgendwie die Arbeitszeit beeinflussen, irgendwie die Dessert einfach nur so plakativ mir gesagt, Dave, das ist halt nur 'n Du Problem, dass Du dass Du überlegen musst, worauf Du stolz bist und gesagt darauf stolz, dann irgendwas zu und dann irgendwie, Du hast's ja richtig. Ich glaub schon, dass da irgendwie einen wahrer Kern irgendwie son bisschen drinsteckt. Weil ich mein, wenn wir schon uns vorher irgendwie anschauen, so wie sind waren die typischen die sind typische Development Teams aufgestellt? So, es gibt dann eher die Produktverantwortlichen und die, die für die Umsetzung verantwortlich sind so.\n\nUnd ich würde sagen, wenn man als Entwickler eher auf der Seite war, umsetzungsverantwortlich zu sein und nicht jeder Entwickler auch gleichzeitig irgendwie eine Produktverantwortung mitgetragen hat, ist ja schon das, wo deine Schöpfung für das, was Du gebaut hast, Dinge, auf die man ja trotzdem am Ende des Tages irgendwie stolz ist und irgendwie gemacht hat und so und irgendwie viele eigene Gedanken reingeflossen sind, dass davon ja ganz, ganz viel weggenommen wird so. Und ich glaube schon, dass es super vielen da so geht, dass sie daraus irgendwie eine Form von Genugtuung irgendwie bekommen haben, dass hey, ich hab das gebaut, ich hab überlegt, wie das gebaut wurde und so. Und Du gibst davon ja einiges an die AI ab und bekommst mehr der, schau mal drüber, was ich hier gemacht hab, Aufgaben so. Und dass wir schon wahrscheinlich irgendwo darüber dann darüber unterhalten müssen, woher kommt denn dann diese möglicherweise auch Genugtuung für einige? Und das vielleicht bedeutet, keine Ahnung, Devs werden produktnäher und treffen vielleicht da einfach mehr Entscheidungen und probieren mehr schaffen im wirklich Userfacing Produkt dann am Ende vielleicht mit zu übernehmen, daraus irgendwie eine Bestätigung zu bekommen.\n\nAlso ich muss sagen, ich kann den Dave komplett nachvollziehen, würde wahrscheinlich sagen, ich hätte diese Problematik auch und würde mir wahrscheinlich irgendwo es woanders her holen. Dass er sagt, so, ich muss mehr auf den outcome stolz sein, weil da vielleicht meine Schöpfungshöhe ist und ich hab nur die AI genutzt, das in die Realität umzusetzen. Aber am Ende derjenige zu sein, der sagt, hey, ich hab hier 'n Product Backlog, da stehen die Anforderungen meines Productmanagers drin. Mein Job ist, das zu nehmen und das eine AI zu erklären, dass da irgendwie Probleme drinstecken, dass Leute sagen, hey, am Ende des Tages bin ich vielleicht nicht mehr ganz so motiviert, weil weil mich das nicht antreibt. Da würd ich schon sagen, ist 'n Problem drin, was wir lösen, was gelöst werden muss.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also ich mach mich noch mal unbeliebt und sag, wer, boah, sag ich das hier am Podcast. Sag das mal Sag das mal, komm. Ja. Also wer wer bisher sein sein Selbstwertgefühl daraus gezogen hat, dass er stupile Tickets umsetzt und sich nicht Gedanken darüber macht, was das eigentlich soll und wo das herkommt, das Feature. Für den hab ich eben bisschen weniger Empathie übrig.\n\nAber das ist, glaub ich, eine ganz andere Diskussion, die man an 'nem anderen Zeitpunkt mal Das hab\n\nSpeaker 3: ich aber auch auf Fabis Beschreibung jetzt nicht rausgenommen. Nee. Als für Dissens. Ja. Also das heißt ich dir.\n\nSpeaker 0: Doch, aber wie gesagt, ne, vielleicht machen wir da noch mal\n\nSpeaker 1: eine Aber es gibt\n\nSpeaker 2: ja trotzdem noch auch Absätze davon, auch wenn Du dich da schon interessiert hast, war ja trotzdem groß deiner Output, wenn Du sagst, hey, vielleicht arbeitest Du in 'nem Team, wo Du sagst, hey, diese Produkteentscheidung, ich geh damit voll viel mit. Ich muss bei 10 Prozent vielleicht noch mal hier und da sagen, so so würd ich's anders machen. Aber es werden gute Entscheidungen getroffen. Mein Job ist, die bestmöglich umzusetzen. Da ist ja superviel Schaffenskraft drin, indem wie Du bestimmte Anforderungen in welcher Granulatität's ja auch immer bekommst, dann umsetzt, wie Du's irgendwie designs, wie Du schreibst.\n\nUnd das ist ja auch superviel, also bestätigen einfach darin, wenn Du was trotzdem gut entwickelst und gut umsetzt, so. Also das ist ja jetzt erst mal kein, es muss ja, musste ja nicht jeder vorher seine seine den Großteil seiner Motivation daraus ziehen, das Produkt auch immer mitzuschapen, so. Und ich würde sagen, ist wahrscheinlich eher der Großteil der Devs, die die ihr die ihre Bestätigung und ihr Begeisterung aus der Umsetzung von Dingen ziehen und nicht unbedingt federführend dafür sein müssen, was genau umgesetzt wird an jeder Stelle.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Ich glaub, also ja, ich versteh, was Du meinst. Wir können da noch uns ewig im Kreis hättest. Ich glaub, wir lassen das hier lieber angesichts der Anbetracht der Zeit und sind dann durch für heute. Mich würde trotzdem interessieren, wenn ihr da draußen auch an AI Fatique war, glaub ich, das Ja, whatever, ne.\n\nLeidet oder das im Team beobachtet habt und vielleicht schon Ansätze habt, wie ihr damit umgeht, das könnt ihr uns gerne mal zuschicken. Ansonsten 1000\n\nSpeaker 3: Dank für alle, die am\n\nSpeaker 0: Start waren. 1000 Dank für alle, die Zuhörer haben und wir hören uns nächste Woche wieder. Bis denn da. Bis dann auch. Tschau.\n\nTschau.\n\nSpeaker 3: Tschau. Tschau. Tschüssi.",[27296,27305,27313,27326,27330,27333,27337,27344,27348,27355,27364,27368,27374,27382,27386,27391,27399,27406,27411,27417,27430,27438,27442,27454,27464,27468,27472,27476,27480,27486,27499,27503,27510,27516,27520,27525,27534,27538,27542,27547,27551,27557,27561,27565,27569,27574,27578,27589,27598,27601,27614,27617,27624,27628,27640,27643,27647,27660,27664,27668,27677,27689,27693,27697,27710,27723,27736,27742,27745,27757,27761,27768,27773,27780,27784,27787,27790,27796,27803,27807,27811,27816,27820,27832,27839,27844,27855,27866,27872,27876,27881,27885,27889,27897,27906,27915,27928,27934,27942,27955,27959,27963,27967,27973,27977,27981,27985,27991,27995,28007,28011,28017,28021,28026,28030,28041,28048,28052,28061,28065,28077,28089,28095,28099,28103,28109,28122,28128,28134,28138,28146,28150,28154,28162,28166,28177,28186,28190,28194,28198,28201,28209,28221,28234,28247,28258,28266,28275,28279,28290,28294,28298,28302,28314,28327,28331,28336,28340,28344,28350,28362,28373,28379,28391,28395,28399,28406,28419,28424,28427,28435,28439,28443,28456,28469,28476,28487,28493,28497,28501,28505,28516,28520,28524,28531,28536,28540,28544,28551,28561,28573,28578,28582,28586,28590,28594,28600,28609,28616,28621,28627,28638,28651,28662,28668,28674,28686,28699,28712,28725,28737,28750,28754,28766,28770,28783,28789,28793,28805,28809,28813,28826,28831,28843,28856,28865,28878,28891,28897,28909,28917,28929,28932,28945,28958,28971,28983,28992,28995,29005,29009,29019,29032,29036,29042,29052,29060,29064,29073,29085,29093,29105,29113,29117,29121,29127,29140,29146,29158,29170,29183,29196,29207,29211,29221,29225,29229,29241,29249,29260,29266,29270,29281,29284],{"sentences":27297,"speaker":143,"num_words":27304,"start":140,"end":307},[27298,27300,27302],{"text":27299,"start":140,"end":205},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu 1 neuen programmierbaren News Ausgabe, heute schon in Kalenderwoche 8 20 26.",{"text":27301,"start":205,"end":260},"Das Jahr ist quasi gefühlt schon gleich wieder rum, obwohl gefühlt gestern erst Silvester war.",{"text":27303,"start":264,"end":307},"Ich bin Jan Gregor Ingo Riebel und mit mir im Studio sitzen",44,{"sentences":27306,"speaker":122,"num_words":27312,"start":310,"end":358},[27307,27309,27310],{"text":27308,"start":310,"end":324},"Dave aka David Krusitzky.",{"text":332,"start":329,"end":330},{"text":27311,"start":335,"end":358},"Dennis Becker und der Fabi Think, hallo.",12,{"sentences":27314,"speaker":143,"num_words":27325,"start":362,"end":709},[27315,27317,27319,27321,27323],{"text":27316,"start":362,"end":389},"Das hat ja geklappt, als hätten wir das geübt.",{"text":27318,"start":389,"end":402},"Das ist ja wunderbar.",{"text":27320,"start":405,"end":492},"Wir wollen heute sprechen über den State of JavaScript Report über Warcraft, ich bin gespannt, über WebMCP und darum, warum AI uns alle fertigmacht.",{"text":27322,"start":497,"end":624},"Aber vorher haben wir noch so ein paar Housekeeping News am Start und zwar einmal der Hinweis, dass ihr euch jetzt noch ganz schnell für das Meet-up anmelden könnt, am fünften März wieder bei uns in der Saline.",{"text":27324,"start":624,"end":709},"Es geht Micro Interactions in UX, Design, Umsetzung und Implementierungen und das Ganze wird gezeigt von ein paar netten Kollegen von uns.",97,{"sentences":27327,"speaker":143,"num_words":775,"start":714,"end":720},[27328],{"text":27329,"start":714,"end":720},"Außerdem Julian",{"sentences":27331,"speaker":122,"num_words":122,"start":725,"end":726},[27332],{"text":729,"start":725,"end":726},{"sentences":27334,"speaker":143,"num_words":775,"start":731,"end":737},[27335],{"text":27336,"start":731,"end":737},"Und Sven.",{"sentences":27338,"speaker":122,"num_words":27343,"start":737,"end":761},[27339,27341],{"text":27340,"start":737,"end":747},"Sau da.",{"text":27342,"start":747,"end":761},"Also wenn dann",5,{"sentences":27345,"speaker":143,"num_words":775,"start":761,"end":769},[27346],{"text":27347,"start":761,"end":769},"dann beide.",{"sentences":27349,"speaker":775,"num_words":27354,"start":769,"end":814},[27350,27352],{"text":27351,"start":769,"end":804},"Wenn ihr jetzt zu 'nem kommt, dann zu dem.",{"text":27353,"start":804,"end":814},"Ja, nee,",11,{"sentences":27356,"speaker":819,"num_words":27363,"start":814,"end":901},[27357,27359,27361],{"text":27358,"start":814,"end":831},"das wird doch richtig.",{"text":27360,"start":831,"end":845},"Das wird richtig gut.",{"text":27362,"start":845,"end":901},"Ich merk ja auch die ganze Zeit, wie Julian da Feuer und Seele reingibt, von daher.",24,{"sentences":27365,"speaker":775,"num_words":27354,"start":901,"end":946},[27366],{"text":27367,"start":901,"end":946},"Svens Talk hat ja schon eine gehaltene Waschwutsch schon sehr gehypt.",{"sentences":27369,"speaker":122,"num_words":27373,"start":946,"end":972},[27370,27371],{"text":954,"start":946,"end":951},{"text":27372,"start":951,"end":972},"Von daher, deswegen haben wir",6,{"sentences":27375,"speaker":775,"num_words":27381,"start":972,"end":1026},[27376,27378,27380],{"text":27377,"start":972,"end":983},"ja überhaupt dazu.",{"text":27379,"start":983,"end":1022},"Also der jetzt, ich glaub, der freu ich mich auch sehr drauf.",{"text":1028,"start":1022,"end":1026},16,{"sentences":27383,"speaker":143,"num_words":819,"start":1026,"end":1038},[27384],{"text":27385,"start":1026,"end":1038},"wird doppelt geil.",{"sentences":27387,"speaker":775,"num_words":27390,"start":1038,"end":1087},[27388],{"text":27389,"start":1038,"end":1087},"Da müsst ihr, also wenn ihr zu einem Meet App kommt, dann zu dem.",14,{"sentences":27392,"speaker":122,"num_words":27398,"start":1087,"end":1109},[27393,27395,27397],{"text":27394,"start":1087,"end":1099},"Ja, ich werd kommen.",{"text":27396,"start":1099,"end":1105},"Ich auch.",{"text":266,"start":1105,"end":1109},7,{"sentences":27400,"speaker":819,"num_words":27405,"start":1109,"end":1124},[27401,27403],{"text":27402,"start":1109,"end":1116},"werd auch.",{"text":27404,"start":1116,"end":1124},"Da weg.",4,{"sentences":27407,"speaker":143,"num_words":27410,"start":1124,"end":1189},[27408],{"text":27409,"start":1124,"end":1189},"Das ist jetzt natürlich, also Fabi cooler Pitch, aber ist natürlich megaschwierig, jetzt das nächste Meet App noch anzukriegen.",19,{"sentences":27412,"speaker":775,"num_words":27398,"start":1194,"end":1214},[27413,27415],{"text":27414,"start":1194,"end":1205},"Woll ich auch noch.",{"text":27416,"start":1205,"end":1214},"Wenn man zu",{"sentences":27418,"speaker":143,"num_words":27429,"start":1216,"end":1453},[27419,27421,27423,27425,27427],{"text":27420,"start":1216,"end":1301},"einem wenn ihr leider nicht am fünften März kommen könnt, obwohl ihr unbedingt kommen wolltet, wie Fabio das gesagt hat, dann könnt ihr am neunten April ins nächste Meet-up kommen.",{"text":27422,"start":1304,"end":1329},"Und zwar ist Julia Kordik bei uns vor Ort.",{"text":27424,"start":1329,"end":1353},"Wir hatten ja mit ihr die Oh Gott.",{"text":27426,"start":1358,"end":1418},"Podcastaufnahme gemacht über Coding Agents und sie hat son bisschen erzählt aus ihrer Arbeit bei bei Microsoft.",{"text":27428,"start":1422,"end":1453},"Und das ganze Thema arbeiten wir noch mal bei uns vor Ort auf.",77,{"sentences":27431,"speaker":122,"num_words":27437,"start":1456,"end":1529},[27432,27433,27435],{"text":1459,"start":1456,"end":1457},{"text":27434,"start":1461,"end":1503},"War das war das nicht wer anderes, der bei bei, die bei Microsoft gearbeitet hat?",{"text":27436,"start":1507,"end":1529},"Nee, das ist die einzige Nee, wir",23,{"sentences":27439,"speaker":143,"num_words":140,"start":1529,"end":1566},[27440],{"text":27441,"start":1529,"end":1566},"wir machen jetzt nicht wieder den Medium Witz hier, dass",{"sentences":27443,"speaker":819,"num_words":27363,"start":1569,"end":1647},[27444,27446,27448,27450,27452],{"text":27445,"start":1569,"end":1583},"Medium hat nicht bei Microsoft gearbeitet.",{"text":27447,"start":1588,"end":1603},"Oder hat sie bei Microsoft?",{"text":27449,"start":1607,"end":1623},"Die kenn ich von Microsoft, ja.",{"text":27451,"start":1623,"end":1634},"Okay, von Microsoft.",{"text":27453,"start":1634,"end":1647},"Okay, das ist richtig,",{"sentences":27455,"speaker":122,"num_words":27463,"start":1651,"end":1719},[27456,27458,27460,27461],{"text":27457,"start":1651,"end":1693},"Und das langweilig war natürlich grad ein Scherz, deswegen auf euren Bezug auf Fabi.",{"text":27459,"start":1693,"end":1707},"Auch 'n cooles Meet-up.",{"text":1712,"start":1707,"end":1711},{"text":27462,"start":1714,"end":1719},"Nee, nicht so",22,{"sentences":27465,"speaker":819,"num_words":140,"start":1719,"end":1747},[27466],{"text":27467,"start":1719,"end":1747},"cool wie das jetzt im März, aber Hat Fabi gesagt?",{"sentences":27469,"speaker":143,"num_words":775,"start":1751,"end":1756},[27470],{"text":27471,"start":1751,"end":1756},"Ja, Fabi.",{"sentences":27473,"speaker":775,"num_words":27398,"start":1758,"end":1778},[27474],{"text":27475,"start":1758,"end":1778},"Ich hab nette Sachen zu einem Meet-up.",{"sentences":27477,"speaker":819,"num_words":819,"start":1781,"end":1788},[27478],{"text":27479,"start":1781,"end":1788},"Also ich weiß,",{"sentences":27481,"speaker":122,"num_words":27381,"start":1792,"end":1839},[27482,27484],{"text":27483,"start":1792,"end":1815},"also ist ja eure Sache, was ihr erzählt.",{"text":27485,"start":1815,"end":1839},"Ist ja eure Bühne macht, was ihr wollt",{"sentences":27487,"speaker":143,"num_words":27498,"start":1839,"end":2136},[27488,27490,27492,27494,27496],{"text":27489,"start":1839,"end":1851},"mit der eurer Zeit.",{"text":27491,"start":1851,"end":1943},"Wer noch mehr Talks will und programmierbar sehen will, kann quasi am zwölften März nach Dresden kommen und da Dennis auf der Dekompiled Konferenz sehen, nämlich auch auf der großen Bühne.",{"text":27493,"start":1947,"end":2099},"Und Gott sei Dank ist er nicht nur Dennis auf der großen Bühne, sondern wir machen eine Liveaufnahme vor Ort im Rahmen der Konferenz und Julian und ich werden auf der Devland sein und da auch im Abendprogramm wahrscheinlich noch mal den programmierbar Contest, die Coding Competition, die wir auch auf den Ja, ja.",{"text":27495,"start":2103,"end":2126},"Programmiercon hatten, noch mal in den Start bringen.",{"text":27497,"start":2130,"end":2136},"Das stimmt.",99,{"sentences":27500,"speaker":143,"num_words":27363,"start":2136,"end":2202},[27501],{"text":27502,"start":2136,"end":2202},"Und wer keines von diesen Events schafft und uns trotzdem sehen will, der kann uns jetzt auch einfach auf Youtube anschauen oder auf Spotify",{"sentences":27504,"speaker":819,"num_words":27509,"start":2207,"end":2233},[27505,27507],{"text":27506,"start":2207,"end":2213},"Video irgendwas.",{"text":27508,"start":2217,"end":2233},"Und bald auch bei Apple, oder?",8,{"sentences":27511,"speaker":143,"num_words":140,"start":2236,"end":2260},[27512,27514],{"text":27513,"start":2236,"end":2249},"Ja, da arbeiten wir noch dran.",{"text":27515,"start":2249,"end":2260},"Das klappt jetzt grad",{"sentences":27517,"speaker":122,"num_words":775,"start":2260,"end":2265},[27518],{"text":27519,"start":2260,"end":2265},"noch nicht",{"sentences":27521,"speaker":143,"num_words":27524,"start":2265,"end":2304},[27522],{"text":27523,"start":2265,"end":2304},"so mit dem Hoster, so wie wir das wollen, aber das kommt hoffentlich auch bald.",15,{"sentences":27526,"speaker":122,"num_words":27354,"start":2307,"end":2355},[27527,27528,27530,27532],{"text":2311,"start":2307,"end":2308},{"text":27529,"start":2308,"end":2332},"Sorry, Dennis, worüber redest Du?",{"text":27531,"start":2337,"end":2348},"Kurze Zweiter zusammengefasst.",{"text":27533,"start":2348,"end":2355},"In Dresden.",{"sentences":27535,"speaker":775,"num_words":27405,"start":2359,"end":2368},[27536,27537],{"text":27533,"start":2359,"end":2363},{"text":27533,"start":2363,"end":2368},{"sentences":27539,"speaker":122,"num_words":27524,"start":2368,"end":2423},[27540],{"text":27541,"start":2368,"end":2423},"Ich, das ist ja eine Live Podcast, ein Format, das wir zum ersten Mal machen.",{"sentences":27543,"speaker":775,"num_words":27390,"start":2426,"end":2461},[27544,27545],{"text":954,"start":2426,"end":2427},{"text":27546,"start":2427,"end":2461},"Und wer ist denn Jan und Du oder wer wer ist da live?",{"sentences":27548,"speaker":122,"num_words":775,"start":2461,"end":2470},[27549],{"text":27550,"start":2461,"end":2470},"Nee, Icker.",{"sentences":27552,"speaker":143,"num_words":27390,"start":2470,"end":2514},[27553,27555],{"text":27554,"start":2470,"end":2489},"Ich bin ja gleichzeitig auf der Defland.",{"text":27556,"start":2489,"end":2514},"Die ist am zwölften und Dreizehnten Du",{"sentences":27558,"speaker":775,"num_words":819,"start":2514,"end":2526},[27559],{"text":27560,"start":2514,"end":2526},"machst alleine Podcastaufnahme.",{"sentences":27562,"speaker":143,"num_words":27405,"start":2530,"end":2542},[27563],{"text":27564,"start":2530,"end":2542},"Dennis macht allein, ja.",{"sentences":27566,"speaker":122,"num_words":775,"start":2542,"end":2551},[27567,27568],{"text":2549,"start":2542,"end":2546},{"text":266,"start":2546,"end":2551},{"sentences":27570,"speaker":143,"num_words":27573,"start":2553,"end":2589},[27571],{"text":27572,"start":2553,"end":2589},"Ich hab auch schon Handelsschweiß im Gesicht, wenn wir das noch nicht tun.",13,{"sentences":27575,"speaker":819,"num_words":27312,"start":2589,"end":2623},[27576],{"text":27577,"start":2589,"end":2623},"Ja, das ist, das soll 'n bisschen weniger Dennis haben im Podcast",{"sentences":27579,"speaker":122,"num_words":27588,"start":2626,"end":2727},[27580,27582,27584,27585,27587],{"text":27581,"start":2626,"end":2653},"Ich hab die Ehre, mit Pia Temple zu sprechen.",{"text":27583,"start":2653,"end":2698},"Ab Pia ist Product Management oder Director of Product Management at Github.",{"text":954,"start":2698,"end":2702},{"text":27586,"start":2702,"end":2723},"Und hält die Keynote auf der Konferenz.",{"text":2728,"start":2723,"end":2727},30,{"sentences":27590,"speaker":122,"num_words":27597,"start":2727,"end":2946},[27591,27593,27595],{"text":27592,"start":2727,"end":2856},"Und dann haben wir mittags einen Slot, ja, darüber zu sprechen, vor allen Dingen son bisschen AI Governance, wie welche welche was macht GitHub, son bisschen zu gucken, AI in sicheren Bahnen zu halten, wird son bisschen Kern des Themas sein.",{"text":27594,"start":2856,"end":2908},"Und ja, aber auch mit durchaus gibt son Frage- und Antwort Tool auch da auf der Konferenz.",{"text":27596,"start":2910,"end":2946},"Das heißt auch, das Publikum, was da ist, kann 'n bisschen Fragen einstreuen.",71,{"sentences":27599,"speaker":819,"num_words":122,"start":2950,"end":2951},[27600],{"text":2728,"start":2950,"end":2951},{"sentences":27602,"speaker":122,"num_words":27613,"start":2951,"end":3120},[27603,27605,27607,27609,27611],{"text":27604,"start":2951,"end":2991},"Bin 'n bisschen aufgeregt, weil das ist ja das erste Mal so Live.",{"text":27606,"start":2996,"end":3008},"Setting live dann Ja.",{"text":27608,"start":3010,"end":3025},"Auf 'ner Bühne Podcast zu machen.",{"text":27610,"start":3028,"end":3044},"Aber wird, glaub ich, ganz cool.",{"text":27612,"start":3044,"end":3120},"Und auch noch 2 andere Gäste schon klargemacht, die ich auch interviewe auf der Konferenz, die ja dann aber erst reguläre Folgen, rauskommen werden.",53,{"sentences":27615,"speaker":122,"num_words":122,"start":3124,"end":3125},[27616],{"text":3126,"start":3124,"end":3125},{"sentences":27618,"speaker":819,"num_words":27354,"start":3128,"end":3162},[27619,27621,27622],{"text":27620,"start":3128,"end":3136},"Ja, wirklich spannend.",{"text":2728,"start":3140,"end":3141},{"text":27623,"start":3144,"end":3162},"Ich bin ich bin für dich aufgeregt.",{"sentences":27625,"speaker":122,"num_words":27373,"start":3162,"end":3180},[27626],{"text":27627,"start":3162,"end":3180},"Du kannst auch noch weiterhin mitkommen.",{"sentences":27629,"speaker":819,"num_words":27639,"start":3183,"end":3238},[27630,27632,27633,27635,27637],{"text":27631,"start":3183,"end":3200},"Machen wir's zu zweit auf der Bühne?",{"text":2311,"start":3200,"end":3204},{"text":27634,"start":3204,"end":3211},"Oh, okay.",{"text":27636,"start":3211,"end":3219},"Ja, Mayvie.",{"text":27638,"start":3224,"end":3238},"Find ich gar nicht so unspannend.",18,{"sentences":27641,"speaker":819,"num_words":122,"start":3238,"end":3243},[27642],{"text":3245,"start":3238,"end":3243},{"sentences":27644,"speaker":122,"num_words":775,"start":3243,"end":3252},[27645],{"text":27646,"start":3243,"end":3252},"siehst Du?",{"sentences":27648,"speaker":143,"num_words":27659,"start":3252,"end":3397},[27649,27651,27653,27655,27657],{"text":27650,"start":3252,"end":3259},"Mayvie Mayvie.",{"text":27652,"start":3262,"end":3319},"So, und bevor sich Dennis AI Governance kümmert, kann er vorher noch mal bei uns was erzählen zu dem State of JavaScript Report.",{"text":27654,"start":3319,"end":3368},"Wir hatten ja, ich glaube, Anfang des Jahres über den State of HTML Report schon gesprochen.",{"text":27656,"start":3372,"end":3382},"Das klingt sehr ähnlich.",{"text":27658,"start":3382,"end":3397},"Ist es aus demselben Haus?",50,{"sentences":27661,"speaker":122,"num_words":27573,"start":3401,"end":3437},[27662],{"text":27663,"start":3401,"end":3437},"Ja, das hast ja hoffentlich Du vorher recherchiert, bevor Du diese Frage stellst.",{"sentences":27665,"speaker":819,"num_words":27405,"start":3440,"end":3451},[27666],{"text":27667,"start":3440,"end":3451},"Ich hab nur gesehen,",{"sentences":27669,"speaker":143,"num_words":27676,"start":3451,"end":3509},[27670,27672,27674],{"text":27671,"start":3451,"end":3482},"das hatten wir schon mal, dachte, ja, State of irgendwas.",{"text":27673,"start":3482,"end":3503},"Klingt doch so, als will man das sagen?",{"text":27675,"start":3503,"end":3509},"State of.",20,{"sentences":27678,"speaker":122,"num_words":27688,"start":3514,"end":3663},[27679,27681,27683,27685,27687],{"text":27680,"start":3514,"end":3520},"Gute Frage.",{"text":27682,"start":3520,"end":3563},"Ich hab mich jetzt nicht noch mal da mit beschäftigt, wer eigentlich dahintersteckt und wer das macht.",{"text":27684,"start":3563,"end":3606},"Wir hatten State of JavaScript, glaub ich, schon häufig hier im Podcast über in den letzten Jahren.",{"text":27686,"start":3609,"end":3658},"Wer aber tatsächlich, das kenn ich bestimmt irgendwie parallel noch kurz, Weiß ich nicht, was die machen.",{"text":3665,"start":3662,"end":3663},54,{"sentences":27690,"speaker":122,"num_words":27373,"start":3668,"end":3688},[27691],{"text":27692,"start":3668,"end":3688},"Ah doch, HTML gehört zu denen.",{"sentences":27694,"speaker":143,"num_words":27373,"start":3692,"end":3706},[27695],{"text":27696,"start":3692,"end":3706},"Also es sieht sehr ähnlich aus.",{"sentences":27698,"speaker":122,"num_words":27709,"start":3706,"end":4026},[27699,27701,27703,27705,27707],{"text":27700,"start":3706,"end":3815},"Ja, das sind die gleichen Leute, die wohl ziemlich als One Man Show irgendwann 2016 angefangen haben, dieses ganze Ding zu tun und son Surrey Plattform zu sein eben für die unterschiedlichen Sachen.",{"text":27702,"start":3815,"end":3857},"Ich glaub, was auch das Ganze vereint, macht schon Spaß, da mal 'n bisschen rumzuklicken.",{"text":27704,"start":3861,"end":3932},"Das heißt, vor allen Dingen in der Einladung, dass ihr euch das auch mal anguckt, State of Jazz Punkt com, son bisschen euch da durchzuklicken.",{"text":27706,"start":3935,"end":3997},"Und genau, JavaScript, da geht's letztendlich so alles, ja, Frontend, Backend Tools, die Frameworks, die da so draußen sind.",{"text":27708,"start":3997,"end":4026},"Ich find das Intro irgendwie ganz, ganz süß, ist so.",102,{"sentences":27711,"speaker":122,"num_words":27722,"start":4030,"end":4280},[27712,27714,27716,27718,27720],{"text":27713,"start":4030,"end":4068},"Ist ja vor nicht allzu langer Zeit die Switch 2 rausgekommen von Nintendo.",{"text":27715,"start":4068,"end":4098},"Und das war 9 Jahre, nachdem die erste Switch rauskam.",{"text":27717,"start":4101,"end":4158},"Und so die Entwickler, die dafür entwickeln, ne, 9 Jahre lang irgendwie gleich in Frameworks, keine neuen Bugs, gleiche APIs.",{"text":27719,"start":4162,"end":4230},"Und wenn man das dann vergleicht mit der JavaScript Welt, wo es die ganze Zeit irgendeinen neuen Scheiß gibt, den man theoretisch hinterherlaufen soll.",{"text":27721,"start":4234,"end":4280},"Aber ja, daher ein bisschen mehr Chaos und von daher ganz interessant, was da so Neues kommt.",84,{"sentences":27724,"speaker":122,"num_words":27735,"start":4284,"end":4412},[27725,27727,27729,27731,27733],{"text":27726,"start":4284,"end":4319},"Vielleicht ein, 2 Sachen rausgepickt, weil wir häufig mal im Podcast darüber sprechen.",{"text":27728,"start":4321,"end":4351},"Also es gibt verschiedenste Kategorien, in denen das son bisschen aufgeteilt ist.",{"text":27730,"start":4355,"end":4381},"Und die werden dann immer bewertet nach, in verschiedensten Kategorien.",{"text":27732,"start":4381,"end":4399},"Also wie viel wird es genutzt?",{"text":27734,"start":4403,"end":4412},"Wie viel ist bekannt?",45,{"sentences":27737,"speaker":122,"num_words":27390,"start":4415,"end":4456},[27738,27740],{"text":27739,"start":4415,"end":4426},"Wie hoch ist die Zufriedenheit?",{"text":27741,"start":4429,"end":4456},"Ich glaube, ein Frontend Framework, was gehightet wird, ist.",{"sentences":27743,"speaker":819,"num_words":122,"start":4459,"end":4460},[27744],{"text":2728,"start":4459,"end":4460},{"sentences":27746,"speaker":122,"num_words":27756,"start":4463,"end":4692},[27747,27749,27751,27753,27754],{"text":27748,"start":4463,"end":4510},"Ist zwar nicht mega verbreitet, also irgendwie so bei 10 Prozent, ist aber seit 5 Jahren.",{"text":27750,"start":4513,"end":4611},"Ah, das heißt, das sind einfach viele, die das sehr feiern und wo ja tatsächlich auch son paar ja, Sachen wie hier Signals, kamen ja auch 'n bisschen da raus oder wurden dann noch mal populär durch.",{"text":27752,"start":4614,"end":4659},"Also gehen wir einfach ein paar interessante Dinge, die dieses Framework ausmachen, was Developer feiern.",{"text":1712,"start":4662,"end":4663},{"text":27755,"start":4663,"end":4692},"Und ist da trotzdem noch nicht so die absolute Marktdurchdringung.",79,{"sentences":27758,"speaker":775,"num_words":27312,"start":4696,"end":4729},[27759],{"text":27760,"start":4696,"end":4729},"Vielleicht fallen nicht so viele Leute dann rumpfuschen, deswegen bleibt's auch weiterhin.",{"sentences":27762,"speaker":143,"num_words":27767,"start":4733,"end":4805},[27763,27765],{"text":27764,"start":4733,"end":4752},"Das war auch mein erster Gedanke so.",{"text":27766,"start":4752,"end":4805},"Wenn Du nicht alles vereinen willst und alles all Things for all people sein willst, vielleicht machst Du da",26,{"sentences":27769,"speaker":819,"num_words":27343,"start":4805,"end":4822},[27770,27772],{"text":27771,"start":4805,"end":4818},"einfach 'n besseren Job.",{"text":2311,"start":4821,"end":4822},{"sentences":27774,"speaker":122,"num_words":27779,"start":4824,"end":4889},[27775,27777],{"text":27776,"start":4824,"end":4834},"Das kann sein, ja.",{"text":27778,"start":4837,"end":4889},"Astro haben wir, glaub ich, irgendwie, weißt Du deine intern, wurd es zuletzt auch wieder irgendwo benutzt?",21,{"sentences":27781,"speaker":143,"num_words":27405,"start":4893,"end":4907},[27782],{"text":27783,"start":4893,"end":4907},"Astro for Picks Webseite.",{"sentences":27785,"speaker":819,"num_words":122,"start":4911,"end":4912},[27786],{"text":954,"start":4911,"end":4912},{"sentences":27788,"speaker":775,"num_words":122,"start":4917,"end":4918},[27789],{"text":4921,"start":4917,"end":4918},{"sentences":27791,"speaker":143,"num_words":27398,"start":4923,"end":4941},[27792,27793,27794],{"text":4921,"start":4923,"end":4924},{"text":2311,"start":4928,"end":4929},{"text":27795,"start":4929,"end":4941},"Hatten wir auch irgendwann News.",{"sentences":27797,"speaker":122,"num_words":27410,"start":4945,"end":5003},[27798,27799,27801],{"text":2311,"start":4945,"end":4946},{"text":27800,"start":4946,"end":4964},"Und ja, sehr zufrieden die Leute.",{"text":27802,"start":4964,"end":5003},"Also ist da Nummer 1 Meta Framework aktuell bei 94 Prozent Zufriedenheit.",{"sentences":27804,"speaker":775,"num_words":27354,"start":5003,"end":5038},[27805],{"text":27806,"start":5003,"end":5038},"Ist der Doktor S, die seid übrigens selbst mit Astro gemacht.",{"sentences":27808,"speaker":122,"num_words":27398,"start":5042,"end":5056},[27809],{"text":27810,"start":5042,"end":5056},"Aber wahrscheinlich auch noch nicht seit 2016.",{"sentences":27812,"speaker":775,"num_words":27815,"start":5060,"end":5083},[27813],{"text":27814,"start":5060,"end":5083},"Weil ich hab so nur bei der bei der",9,{"sentences":27817,"speaker":143,"num_words":27381,"start":5085,"end":5129},[27818],{"text":27819,"start":5085,"end":5129},"Ich hab einfach Astro gebaut für die Webseite und dann halt irgendwie sonen Framework draus veröffentlicht.",{"sentences":27821,"speaker":122,"num_words":27831,"start":5133,"end":5369},[27822,27823,27825,27827,27829],{"text":1712,"start":5133,"end":5134},{"text":27824,"start":5138,"end":5209},"Und ja, ich mein, der der, was hat mir noch, warte mal, ich wollte noch Selt sieht man auch, haben wir auch schon häufiger drüber gesprochen.",{"text":27826,"start":5209,"end":5314},"Ist auch ein Framework, also wo wo's dann natürlich irgendwie die beiden Komponenten gibt mit Selt Kit und Selt selbst, was über die Jahre einfach an User immer son bisschen zugenommen hat und auch insgesamt eine weiterhin hohe Rate hat.",{"text":27828,"start":5314,"end":5337},"Also Svelt Kit ist da auf Platz 2.",{"text":27830,"start":5341,"end":5369},"Joa, ich glaube, das reicht erst mal so an ein, 2 Sachen.",87,{"sentences":27833,"speaker":122,"num_words":27659,"start":5369,"end":5518},[27834,27836,27837],{"text":27835,"start":5369,"end":5459},"Ich wollte noch euch fragen, ich finde jetzt natürlich grade, wenn ich klicke, diese Seite nicht, es gab so rausstechende Sachen und da war ein Framework, was ich noch gar nicht gehört habe.",{"text":5468,"start":5464,"end":5465},{"text":27838,"start":5470,"end":5518},"Und wollte, also hier gibt's einiges, was ich noch nicht gehört habe, aber Kennt ihr Hono?",{"sentences":27840,"speaker":143,"num_words":27354,"start":5522,"end":5559},[27841,27842],{"text":2311,"start":5522,"end":5523},{"text":27843,"start":5526,"end":5559},"Das ist doch son Dino Framework, Dino Webserver Framework, oder?",{"sentences":27845,"speaker":122,"num_words":27854,"start":5559,"end":5677},[27846,27848,27849,27851,27853],{"text":27847,"start":5559,"end":5627},"Genau, es ist 'n Back End Framework und ist auf jeden Fall hier auch als 1 der sehr wichtigsten irgendwie rausgestellt worden.",{"text":2728,"start":5631,"end":5632},{"text":27850,"start":5636,"end":5652},"Neben Bann auch, als Bandler.",{"text":27852,"start":5656,"end":5674},"Ja, ich find die Seite jetzt wieder nicht.",{"text":3665,"start":5674,"end":5677},37,{"sentences":27856,"speaker":122,"num_words":27865,"start":5677,"end":5874},[27857,27859,27861,27863],{"text":27858,"start":5677,"end":5737},"Also war auf jeden Fall was, was mir ins Auge sprang, was da jetzt irgendwie in so ein Level gekommen ist.",{"text":27860,"start":5737,"end":5786},"Die haben sone Clusterung von wegen, wie wichtig sind diese Frameworks und wo haben die sich etabliert?",{"text":27862,"start":5786,"end":5814},"Und da sind sie in das oberste s-Tier gerutscht.",{"text":27864,"start":5814,"end":5874},"Und dann dacht ich, okay, krass, dass ich noch nicht davon gehört hab und trotzdem Ich muss mal muss mal Sebi, glaub",69,{"sentences":27867,"speaker":775,"num_words":27676,"start":5874,"end":5935},[27868,27870],{"text":27869,"start":5874,"end":5880},"ich, fragen.",{"text":27871,"start":5880,"end":5935},"Ich glaub, Sebi hat uns, also hat ja alle, glaub ich, was Express, Chor und so weiter durch.",{"sentences":27873,"speaker":819,"num_words":775,"start":5938,"end":5943},[27874],{"text":27875,"start":5938,"end":5943},"Hono, glaub",{"sentences":27877,"speaker":775,"num_words":27398,"start":5943,"end":5960},[27878,27880],{"text":27879,"start":5943,"end":5957},"ich, hat er auch schon eingesetzt.",{"text":735,"start":5957,"end":5960},{"sentences":27882,"speaker":143,"num_words":819,"start":5960,"end":5971},[27883],{"text":27884,"start":5960,"end":5971},"na, hab ich",{"sentences":27886,"speaker":819,"num_words":775,"start":5971,"end":5979},[27887],{"text":27888,"start":5971,"end":5979},"sofort Ja,",{"sentences":27890,"speaker":143,"num_words":27896,"start":5979,"end":6080},[27891,27893,27895],{"text":27892,"start":5979,"end":6049},"Pitch von Hono ist doch so, wir machen alles auf Webständerarts basierend und bauen quasi so wenig eigene Klassen- und Metamodelle wie wie notwendig so.",{"text":27894,"start":6049,"end":6077},"Und dadurch soll's halt so superportabel sein und schnell.",{"text":2728,"start":6077,"end":6080},35,{"sentences":27898,"speaker":819,"num_words":27381,"start":6082,"end":6137},[27899,27901,27903,27904],{"text":27900,"start":6082,"end":6090},"Ja, aber krass.",{"text":27902,"start":6090,"end":6118},"Also direkt mit was rausgekommen hier, ohne mal auschecken.",{"text":6125,"start":6123,"end":6124},{"text":27905,"start":6128,"end":6137},"Yuddy, das war's.",{"sentences":27907,"speaker":143,"num_words":27914,"start":6141,"end":6317},[27908,27910,27912],{"text":27909,"start":6141,"end":6145},"Das war's.",{"text":27911,"start":6145,"end":6255},"Dann hab ich als Nächstes auf der Liste, dass Dave was erzählen wollte zu Warcraft und gestern gesagt hat, oh mein Gott, er hängt wieder voll in Burning Crusade ab, weil das ist ja jetzt so in Classics wieder released worden.",{"text":27913,"start":6255,"end":6317},"Und der erste Gedanke, der mir danach kam, Dave, war, bist Du überhaupt alt genug, original View gespielt zu haben?",63,{"sentences":27916,"speaker":819,"num_words":27927,"start":6320,"end":6484},[27917,27919,27921,27923,27925],{"text":27918,"start":6320,"end":6326},"Ja, ja.",{"text":27920,"start":6326,"end":6362},"Also Jan hat's richtig gesagt, ich bin wieder in Azeroth gefangen, leider.",{"text":27922,"start":6362,"end":6407},"Ich hab ja ich hab ja mein Schultereckgelenk gesprengt und war dann nicht fähig, irgendwas zu machen.",{"text":27924,"start":6410,"end":6454},"Aber da seh ich, WOW, also World of Warcraft ist 'n sehr unanspruchloses Spiel.",{"text":27926,"start":6457,"end":6484},"Oh, ich seh schon die E-Mails sind angekommen, weil Du",55,{"sentences":27929,"speaker":143,"num_words":27373,"start":6484,"end":6503},[27930,27932],{"text":27931,"start":6484,"end":6493},"das hier sind.",{"text":27933,"start":6496,"end":6503},"Das war ja",{"sentences":27935,"speaker":775,"num_words":27398,"start":6503,"end":6531},[27936,27938,27939,27940],{"text":27937,"start":6503,"end":6510},"alles voll.",{"text":6518,"start":6515,"end":6516},{"text":6524,"start":6521,"end":6522},{"text":27941,"start":6522,"end":6531},"Es ist ein",{"sentences":27943,"speaker":819,"num_words":27954,"start":6534,"end":6700},[27944,27946,27948,27950,27952],{"text":27945,"start":6534,"end":6571},"nicht so anspruchsvolles Spiel, das man supereinfach mit nur der Maus spielen kann.",{"text":27947,"start":6571,"end":6600},"Deswegen also perfekt eigentlich nur mit der mit dem rechten Arm.",{"text":27949,"start":6604,"end":6622},"Nee, tatsächlich und ja, ich war alt genug.",{"text":27951,"start":6622,"end":6692},"Ich weiß noch ganz genau, wie ich damals im Real mir Burning Crusade geholt habe und es war ab 12 und ich bin da genau 12 geworden.",{"text":27953,"start":6695,"end":6700},"Deswegen Okay,",61,{"sentences":27956,"speaker":143,"num_words":27354,"start":6700,"end":6728},[27957],{"text":27958,"start":6700,"end":6728},"also also bist Du quasi mit Burning Crusade aber eingestiegen, so.",{"sentences":27960,"speaker":819,"num_words":27343,"start":6728,"end":6744},[27961],{"text":27962,"start":6728,"end":6744},"Genau, also bin damit eingestiegen?",{"sentences":27964,"speaker":143,"num_words":27343,"start":6749,"end":6764},[27965],{"text":27966,"start":6749,"end":6764},"Vanille, ganz original so mitgekriegt.",{"sentences":27968,"speaker":122,"num_words":140,"start":6768,"end":6797},[27969,27971],{"text":27970,"start":6768,"end":6778},"Nee, nee, genau, genau.",{"text":27972,"start":6778,"end":6797},"Also aber ich find's schon, dass",{"sentences":27974,"speaker":819,"num_words":27312,"start":6797,"end":6827},[27975],{"text":27976,"start":6797,"end":6827},"es son Nerddog ist, wo ihr beide, glaub ich, ja gar nicht",{"sentences":27978,"speaker":775,"num_words":27676,"start":6829,"end":6878},[27979],{"text":27980,"start":6829,"end":6878},"Doch, ich, also ich war auf jeden Fall, ich bin die paar Jahre älter, im im Original gespielt zu werden.",{"sentences":27982,"speaker":143,"num_words":27373,"start":6878,"end":6898},[27983],{"text":27984,"start":6878,"end":6898},"Echt, Du hast das hab ich",{"sentences":27986,"speaker":775,"num_words":27354,"start":6898,"end":6929},[27987,27989],{"text":27988,"start":6898,"end":6905},"dann aufgehört.",{"text":27990,"start":6908,"end":6929},"Also das hab ich dann gar nicht mehr mitgemacht.",{"sentences":27992,"speaker":122,"num_words":819,"start":6929,"end":6939},[27993],{"text":27994,"start":6929,"end":6939},"Ich hab davor",{"sentences":27996,"speaker":819,"num_words":27410,"start":6941,"end":7001},[27997,27999,28001,28003,28005],{"text":27998,"start":6941,"end":6947},"Ja, same.",{"text":28000,"start":6947,"end":6954},"Ah okay.",{"text":28002,"start":6954,"end":6973},"Und da warst Du auch Ja.",{"text":28004,"start":6976,"end":6990},"Bei Warcraft 3 auch dabei?",{"text":28006,"start":6990,"end":7001},"Oder war das Warcraft",{"sentences":28008,"speaker":775,"num_words":27354,"start":7001,"end":7028},[28009],{"text":28010,"start":7001,"end":7028},"3 hab ich nee, ich hab nee, hab ich, warcraft 3",{"sentences":28012,"speaker":819,"num_words":27373,"start":7028,"end":7043},[28013,28015],{"text":28014,"start":7028,"end":7038},"hab ich nicht gespielt.",{"text":28016,"start":7038,"end":7043},"Ah, okay.",{"sentences":28018,"speaker":775,"num_words":27398,"start":7045,"end":7067},[28019],{"text":28020,"start":7045,"end":7067},"Der Massag hab ich Counter Strike gespielt.",{"sentences":28022,"speaker":819,"num_words":27398,"start":7069,"end":7089},[28023,28024],{"text":28016,"start":7069,"end":7073},{"text":28025,"start":7073,"end":7089},"Ja, stimmt, das dann echt.",{"sentences":28027,"speaker":775,"num_words":27463,"start":7089,"end":7152},[28028],{"text":28029,"start":7089,"end":7152},"Ich hab Counter Strike, W0W, das waren eigentlich wirklich meine 2 Games, in der ich wirklich sehr viel Zeit drin gibt hab.",{"sentences":28031,"speaker":819,"num_words":27756,"start":7152,"end":7375},[28032,28033,28035,28037,28039],{"text":2311,"start":7152,"end":7156},{"text":28034,"start":7156,"end":7176},"Ja, bietet auch sehr viel Potenzial dafür.",{"text":28036,"start":7179,"end":7247},"Auch Potenzial dafür, Deswegen, also ich hab nur eine kleine News mitgebracht, weil ich das irgendwie ganz fand und mich grad diesen Nerd Kosmos befinde.",{"text":28038,"start":7247,"end":7298},"Und zwar heißt das Ganze Warcraft CN für die Leute, die sagen, hey, das CN sagt mir was.",{"text":28040,"start":7298,"end":7375},"Also es gibt ja diese Chat CN, was jetzt keine keine ist, die man über irgendwie so NPM oder so installiert, sondern einfach sone Ansammlung von verschiedenen Componits.",{"sentences":28042,"speaker":819,"num_words":28047,"start":7375,"end":7457},[28043,28045],{"text":28044,"start":7375,"end":7390},"Man kann sich daran bedienen.",{"text":28046,"start":7394,"end":7457},"Vorteil ist natürlich, anders als wenn Du's über NPM installierst und dann quasi die Komponente einfach verwendest, kannst Du dir da komplett customizet.",28,{"sentences":28049,"speaker":122,"num_words":775,"start":7457,"end":7464},[28050],{"text":28051,"start":7457,"end":7464},"Das heißt,",{"sentences":28053,"speaker":819,"num_words":28060,"start":7464,"end":7641},[28054,28056,28057,28059],{"text":28055,"start":7464,"end":7535},"Du hast den kompletten Code und kannst dann sagen, hey, ich möcht an der Komponente noch mal irgendwie was anderes machen und kannst das dann deinem eigenen Code komplett verändern.",{"text":1712,"start":7538,"end":7539},{"text":28058,"start":7539,"end":7638},"Und da gibt's Warcraft CN, da hat der Entwickler die org dev, also auch sehr passend vom Namen her, so was entwickelt und hat verschiedene Komponenten bereitgestellt, die in dieser Warcraft Ästhetik da sind.",{"text":754,"start":7638,"end":7641},66,{"sentences":28062,"speaker":775,"num_words":27343,"start":7643,"end":7659},[28063],{"text":28064,"start":7643,"end":7659},"Was sind Webkomponenten, ja, ist",{"sentences":28066,"speaker":819,"num_words":27735,"start":7659,"end":7794},[28067,28069,28071,28073,28075],{"text":28068,"start":7659,"end":7665},"'n Webkomponenten.",{"text":28070,"start":7669,"end":7685},"Genau, genau, das sind Webkomponenten, genau.",{"text":28072,"start":7687,"end":7708},"Genau und da haben wir verschiedene Sachen, ne.",{"text":28074,"start":7708,"end":7767},"Wie einfach sone Karte, die aufkommt und genauso aussieht mit diesem Holzhintergrund und diesem Metall drumherum wie son Schild.",{"text":28076,"start":7771,"end":7794},"Auch die verschiedenen Buttons, die man aus dem Spiel kennt.",{"sentences":28078,"speaker":819,"num_words":27597,"start":7797,"end":7987},[28079,28081,28083,28085,28087],{"text":28080,"start":7797,"end":7830},"Auch die Drop down Menü, wo man dann verschiedene Sachen auswählen kann.",{"text":28082,"start":7830,"end":7848},"Die Schrift sieht auch so sehr aus.",{"text":28084,"start":7850,"end":7887},"Und insgesamt einfach, also ich hab was so angeschaut und hab mir so, ach schön.",{"text":28086,"start":7887,"end":7975},"Und wenn ich jetzt irgendwie so mir vorstelle, ich hab son kleines privates Projekt, wo ich irgendwie eine Fantasy Seite oder so kreiere, werd ich mir das auf jeden Fall auf jeden Fall anschauen.",{"text":28088,"start":7979,"end":7987},"Was ich, das",{"sentences":28090,"speaker":775,"num_words":27390,"start":7987,"end":8037},[28091,28093],{"text":28092,"start":7987,"end":8022},"ist, die News Case ist in 'nem private Fantasy Valley.",{"text":28094,"start":8022,"end":8037},"Ich würd das, also",{"sentences":28096,"speaker":819,"num_words":27373,"start":8037,"end":8054},[28097],{"text":28098,"start":8037,"end":8054},"ich würd's ja nicht beruflich benutzen.",{"sentences":28100,"speaker":122,"num_words":775,"start":8057,"end":8062},[28101],{"text":28102,"start":8057,"end":8062},"Warum nicht?",{"sentences":28104,"speaker":143,"num_words":27363,"start":8062,"end":8132},[28105,28107],{"text":28106,"start":8062,"end":8070},"Ja, wieso?",{"text":28108,"start":8070,"end":8132},"Ich ich hab mich jetzt eigentlich schon voll darauf gefreut, dass hier so das als Overlay, ja, für Christmas dann mal kommt.",{"sentences":28110,"speaker":819,"num_words":28121,"start":8134,"end":8430},[28111,28113,28115,28117,28119],{"text":28112,"start":8134,"end":8139},"Oh, ja.",{"text":28114,"start":8142,"end":8151},"Ja, direkt nächster Pitch.",{"text":28116,"start":8154,"end":8256},"Was ich aber sehr, sehr cool finde und das, also ist son bisschen so was Emotionales, der Entwickler hat das vor 'ner Woche oder so veröffentlicht und hatte da, glaub ich, irgendwie nur so 3 Komponenten, die man nutzen konnte.",{"text":28118,"start":8256,"end":8324},"Und mittlerweile ist das da irgendwie Community Bewegung entstanden, wo wir da auch gesehen haben, GitHub Star sind so recht schnell angestiegen.",{"text":28120,"start":8328,"end":8430},"Leute fügen da auch selbst noch mehr Sachen hinzu, wo man jetzt sagen kann, oh, Du hast hier irgendwie die Ork Fraktion, dann hast Du auch die Untoten und so ist alles so, dass die ist farblich anders irgendwie codiert.",108,{"sentences":28123,"speaker":819,"num_words":27437,"start":8430,"end":8493},[28124,28126],{"text":28125,"start":8430,"end":8470},"Und das find ich irgendwie schön, dass da jetzt auch sone kleine Nerd Bewegung entstanden ist.",{"text":28127,"start":8472,"end":8493},"Sehr holsam und Und Copyright gibt's da",{"sentences":28129,"speaker":122,"num_words":27373,"start":8493,"end":8509},[28130,28132],{"text":28131,"start":8493,"end":8500},"nicht oder so?",{"text":28133,"start":8500,"end":8509},"Auf die Dinge.",{"sentences":28135,"speaker":819,"num_words":775,"start":8513,"end":8518},[28136],{"text":28137,"start":8513,"end":8518},"Oh, das",{"sentences":28139,"speaker":143,"num_words":28145,"start":8518,"end":8567},[28140,28142,28144],{"text":28141,"start":8518,"end":8536},"ist ja mehr son Geschmacksmusterding, oder?",{"text":28143,"start":8536,"end":8562},"Wenn das jetzt nur so aussieht wie son bekanntes UI.",{"text":8568,"start":8566,"end":8567},17,{"sentences":28147,"speaker":775,"num_words":27354,"start":8570,"end":8600},[28148],{"text":28149,"start":8570,"end":8600},"Welche, aber auf welche hast Du denn sonen Copyright, das irgendwie,",{"sentences":28151,"speaker":122,"num_words":27390,"start":8603,"end":8640},[28152],{"text":28153,"start":8603,"end":8640},"ich weiß nicht, wenn Du das so nennst, alles und irgendwo das 1 zu",{"sentences":28155,"speaker":819,"num_words":28145,"start":8640,"end":8687},[28156,28158,28160],{"text":28157,"start":8640,"end":8647},"1 so aussieht?",{"text":28159,"start":8647,"end":8658},"Aber guter Punkt eigentlich.",{"text":28161,"start":8658,"end":8687},"Also grad, ne, ich glaub, so Assets wären davon schon.",{"sentences":28163,"speaker":122,"num_words":27405,"start":8691,"end":8699},[28164],{"text":28165,"start":8691,"end":8699},"Auch schon alt genug.",{"sentences":28167,"speaker":819,"num_words":28176,"start":8702,"end":8793},[28168,28170,28171,28173,28175],{"text":28169,"start":8702,"end":8711},"Das ist schon das.",{"text":2311,"start":8715,"end":8716},{"text":28172,"start":8716,"end":8778},"Nee, warte doch, aber so, ne, weil das irgendwie so Holzhintergründe, die sind, glaub ich, da irgendwie schon rausgenommen oder irgendwelche Planeten.",{"text":28174,"start":8781,"end":8790},"Na ja, gute Frage.",{"text":2311,"start":8792,"end":8793},32,{"sentences":28178,"speaker":819,"num_words":28185,"start":8793,"end":8866},[28179,28181,28182,28183,28184],{"text":28180,"start":8793,"end":8854},"Aber es ist ja 'n schönes Projekt, also wovon vielleicht selbst auch son bisschen profitiert, dass das auch recht noch etwas erreicht ist.",{"text":1712,"start":8854,"end":8856},{"text":2311,"start":8856,"end":8858},{"text":2311,"start":8861,"end":8862},{"text":1712,"start":8865,"end":8866},27,{"sentences":28187,"speaker":775,"num_words":775,"start":8869,"end":8876},[28188],{"text":28189,"start":8869,"end":8876},"Wunderbar, wunderbar.",{"sentences":28191,"speaker":143,"num_words":819,"start":8878,"end":8885},[28192],{"text":28193,"start":8878,"end":8885},"Dann Wenn halt",{"sentences":28195,"speaker":775,"num_words":27779,"start":8885,"end":8945},[28196],{"text":28197,"start":8885,"end":8945},"andere Games auf einmal anfangen, Warcraft C n zu nutzen und das vielleicht fangen sie dann an, irgendwie mal dagegen vorzugehen.",{"sentences":28199,"speaker":143,"num_words":775,"start":8945,"end":8952},[28200],{"text":28112,"start":8945,"end":8952},{"sentences":28202,"speaker":775,"num_words":27437,"start":8954,"end":9016},[28203,28205,28207],{"text":28204,"start":8954,"end":8958},"Oder irgendwas.",{"text":28206,"start":8958,"end":9000},"Also mal schauen, also die diese die die das Ganze vor Gericht werden wir natürlich auch begleiten.",{"text":28208,"start":9003,"end":9016},"Der Gossip Podcast wieder.",{"sentences":28210,"speaker":143,"num_words":28220,"start":9019,"end":9372},[28211,28212,28214,28216,28218],{"text":8568,"start":9019,"end":9020},{"text":28213,"start":9020,"end":9152},"Bleiben wir im Browser, wenn Dave seine Fantasy Page gebaut hat mit Warcraft c n und ihr die von euren ganzen AI Agents bedienen lassen wollt, die ihr ja wahrscheinlich mittlerweile zu Dutzenden laufen habt, dann hat Google was Neues für euch am Start, nämlich WebMCP.",{"text":28215,"start":9156,"end":9234},"Wir haben vor Ewigkeiten hier schon mal so über klassisch MCP gesprochen, also so als MCP Server, mit dem man eigene Toolcalls im Prinzip bereitstellen kann.",{"text":28217,"start":9237,"end":9290},"Und Web MCP stellt sich jetzt im Prinzip an, dasselbe zu sein, aber auf reiner Webseiten Client Ebene.",{"text":28219,"start":9293,"end":9372},"So, das Ganze ist im Moment noch in sonem sehr sehr Early Preview Programm, kann man sich anmelden bei Google, dann kann man mal in die Dokumentation da reinschauen.",120,{"sentences":28222,"speaker":143,"num_words":28233,"start":9376,"end":9551},[28223,28225,28227,28229,28231],{"text":28224,"start":9376,"end":9384},"Hab ich mal gemacht.",{"text":28226,"start":9386,"end":9448},"Und Sie verkaufen das im Prinzip als die bessere oder einfachere Variante zu MCP, weil Du eben nicht 'n eigenes Backend dafür brauchst.",{"text":28228,"start":9448,"end":9465},"Du musst nicht eigene Endpunkte bereitstellen.",{"text":28230,"start":9465,"end":9537},"Das Einzige in Anführungszeichen, was Du machen musst, ist auf deiner Webseite zu sagen so, hey, das sind hier Funktionen, die von AI bedient werden können.",{"text":28232,"start":9537,"end":9551},"Da gibt's 2 Wege für.",64,{"sentences":28235,"speaker":143,"num_words":28246,"start":9554,"end":9922},[28236,28238,28240,28242,28244],{"text":28237,"start":9554,"end":9579},"Das eine ist sone sehr deklarative API im HTML selbst.",{"text":28239,"start":9579,"end":9633},"Also wenn Du son Formular hast, kannst Du sagen, das hier ist mein Suchformular, da kannst Du Folgendes eingeben.",{"text":28241,"start":9633,"end":9730},"Oder wenn Du eine, weiß nicht, Du bist eine Flugbuchungswebseite, ja, und schaust dann hier, das ist der das das der Abflughafen, das ist der Ankunftszuhafen, das sind die Uhrzeit, das Datum, was Du suchst.",{"text":28243,"start":9734,"end":9769},"Und hier ist der Button, den Du drücken musst und dann geht's irgendwie weiter, ja?",{"text":28245,"start":9769,"end":9922},"Kannst Du das so so im Prinzip 'n bisschen semantischer machen oder Du kannst über sone imperative API direkt in Java Script Callbacks im Prinzip bereitstellen und sagen so, hey, wenn Du eine Flugsuche starten willst, das ist das JSON Schemema, das ich von dir brauche, die Flughäfen, Datum und Uhrzeit zu kennen.",132,{"sentences":28248,"speaker":143,"num_words":28257,"start":9922,"end":10077},[28249,28251,28253,28255],{"text":28250,"start":9922,"end":9976},"Dann kannst Du diese Funktion hier triggern und ich geborene dir direkt eine zurück, die diesem Schema irgendwie folgen wird.",{"text":28252,"start":9980,"end":10012},"Und dann wird im Prinzip die Webseite benutzt, ohne die Webseite zu nutzen, ne.",{"text":28254,"start":10012,"end":10066},"Also im Prinzip dieselbe Logik, dieselben JavaScript Calls können gemacht werden, aber komplett an dem UI vorbei.",{"text":28256,"start":10066,"end":10077},"Du kannst da natürlich auch",56,{"sentences":28259,"speaker":775,"num_words":27639,"start":10080,"end":10133},[28260,28262,28264],{"text":28261,"start":10080,"end":10088},"keine HTML runtergeladen.",{"text":28263,"start":10092,"end":10117},"Also nur der zumindest nur der Skriptteil davon oder was?",{"text":28265,"start":10117,"end":10133},"Also Ja, die Seite wird",{"sentences":28267,"speaker":143,"num_words":28233,"start":10133,"end":10306},[28268,28270,28271,28273],{"text":28269,"start":10133,"end":10171},"schon regulär geöffnet und es wird auch gerendert, da kommen wir gleich noch zu.",{"text":8568,"start":10171,"end":10174},{"text":28272,"start":10174,"end":10239},"Und im Prinzip ist es dann auch Aufgabe von dir als WebMCP Anbieter dafür zu sorgen, dass UI und WebMCP son bisschen entzüngt bleiben, ne.",{"text":28274,"start":10239,"end":10306},"Also wenn ich jetzt diesen imperativen Teil benutze, dann muss ich als Webseite schon auch irgendwie schauen, dass ich mein UI entsprechend anpasse, damit's",{"sentences":28276,"speaker":775,"num_words":27509,"start":10306,"end":10332},[28277],{"text":28278,"start":10306,"end":10332},"man im Prinzip die Formular genutzt hätte, sowas",{"sentences":28280,"speaker":143,"num_words":27927,"start":10335,"end":10487},[28281,28283,28284,28286,28288],{"text":28282,"start":10335,"end":10340},"Ja, genau.",{"text":1712,"start":10343,"end":10344},{"text":28285,"start":10344,"end":10413},"So, ne, da dass das halt irgendwie auch alles passiert, weil der Use Case ist ja schon Oder andersrum, ist 'n ist eine legititive Frage.",{"text":28287,"start":10413,"end":10468},"Ich hab dich auch gefragt, ist das eher son Agent, der son Headless Browser benutzt und ich gar nicht zugucke?",{"text":28289,"start":10468,"end":10487},"Dann wär mir das halt komplett egal.",{"sentences":28291,"speaker":775,"num_words":775,"start":10490,"end":10495},[28292],{"text":28293,"start":10490,"end":10495},"Oder so.",{"sentences":28295,"speaker":143,"num_words":775,"start":10495,"end":10500},[28296,28297],{"text":2311,"start":10495,"end":10497},{"text":211,"start":10497,"end":10500},{"sentences":28299,"speaker":775,"num_words":140,"start":10500,"end":10527},[28300],{"text":28301,"start":10500,"end":10527},"ist vielleicht echt gar kein, ja, auf 'ner Übung Oder",{"sentences":28303,"speaker":143,"num_words":28121,"start":10527,"end":10824},[28304,28306,28308,28310,28312],{"text":28305,"start":10527,"end":10618},"ist das mehr son son Cloud Co Working Ding, der halt an meinem Rechner irgendwie was macht in meinem Browser für mich oder zumindest denselben Browsercontainer sich irgendwie teilt, ja, schwierig.",{"text":28307,"start":10621,"end":10668},"Weil man muss ja auch bedenken, Du musst ja bei ganz vielen Webseiten auch angemeldet sein und so was, ja?",{"text":28309,"start":10668,"end":10739},"Also der braucht ja irgendwie deine Session, deine Credentials, deine keine Ahnung, er kann ja nicht einfach so drauf losrennen und irgendwas für dich tun.",{"text":28311,"start":10741,"end":10759},"Aber schauen wir dann noch mal an.",{"text":28313,"start":10759,"end":10824},"Also wie gesagt, man kann sich die in der Early Access, nicht Early Access, Early Preview, Early Access war das mit Steam, sich einmal anschauen.",{"sentences":28315,"speaker":143,"num_words":28326,"start":10827,"end":11106},[28316,28318,28320,28322,28324],{"text":28317,"start":10827,"end":10907},"Sie haben 'n cooles, kleines Inspector Utility damit veröffentlicht, wo Du im Prinzip in den Dev Utilitities dann so sehen kannst, okay, welche Function Calls werden hier bereitgestellt?",{"text":28319,"start":10911,"end":10923},"Wie sieht irgendwie die dafür aus?",{"text":28321,"start":10923,"end":11022},"Du kannst es im Prinzip direkt mal callen und so tun, als wärst Du quasi das LLM, zu gucken, wie sich das alles verhält, damit Du nicht noch 'n vorne dran brauchst, das alles debuggen zu können.",{"text":28323,"start":11024,"end":11073},"Ja, wie gesagt, super-, superfrüh, ist auch noch hinter 2 Flex versteckt, die man mal so einschalten muss.",{"text":28325,"start":11073,"end":11106},"Kann man alles tun, wenn man eine Betaversion von Chrome hat.",100,{"sentences":28328,"speaker":143,"num_words":27405,"start":11108,"end":11117},[28329],{"text":28330,"start":11108,"end":11117},"Und der Ja, Dennis?",{"sentences":28332,"speaker":122,"num_words":27373,"start":11120,"end":11141},[28333,28335],{"text":28334,"start":11120,"end":11137},"Macht der Satz so fertig.",{"text":11142,"start":11137,"end":11141},{"sentences":28337,"speaker":143,"num_words":27343,"start":11141,"end":11156},[28338],{"text":28339,"start":11141,"end":11156},"Der Hauptpunkt ist, glaube ich",{"sentences":28341,"speaker":775,"num_words":27343,"start":11158,"end":11173},[28342],{"text":28343,"start":11158,"end":11173},"mit dem Kopf zu spielen.",{"sentences":28345,"speaker":819,"num_words":27815,"start":11173,"end":11202},[28346,28348],{"text":28347,"start":11173,"end":11185},"Ja, ja, ja, ja.",{"text":28349,"start":11188,"end":11202},"Man muss mehr mehr, ne.",{"sentences":28351,"speaker":143,"num_words":28361,"start":11202,"end":11376},[28352,28354,28356,28358,28360],{"text":28353,"start":11202,"end":11261},"Ich glaub, der der große Unterschied ist halt, wenn man son zum Beispiel son son Playrite MCP Server wird, ne.",{"text":28355,"start":11261,"end":11332},"Ich mach das manchmal während der Entwicklung, einfach hier sagen zu können, Cloud Code schau dir mal die Website an, guck mal, was da nicht funktioniert.",{"text":28357,"start":11336,"end":11352},"Guck dir mal diesen Button an, blapper.",{"text":28359,"start":11355,"end":11372},"Das halt super, super token intensiv.",{"text":11379,"start":11375,"end":11376},60,{"sentences":28363,"speaker":143,"num_words":28372,"start":11376,"end":11605},[28364,28366,28368,28370],{"text":28365,"start":11376,"end":11422},"Eine ganze Webseite parsen, irgendwie das ganze DOM irgendwie durchacker und gucken, was da gemacht werden muss.",{"text":28367,"start":11424,"end":11451},"Das können ja viele schon, aber ist halt krass langsam und unzuverlässig.",{"text":28369,"start":11455,"end":11578},"So, und ich glaube, mit so direkten Function Calls über Web MCP kann es halt krass viel einfacher sein, ohne dass Du halt 'n ganzen MCP Server und bla bla bla dafür bauen musst und Du musst eigentlich nur die Funktionen exposen in deiner Webseite, die Du ja schon da hast.",{"text":28371,"start":11581,"end":11605},"So und jetzt kann Dennis kurz mit dem Kopf schütteln.",90,{"sentences":28374,"speaker":775,"num_words":27398,"start":11610,"end":11626},[28375,28377],{"text":28376,"start":11610,"end":11615},"Danke schön.",{"text":28378,"start":11615,"end":11626},"Ja, glaub ich nicht dran.",{"sentences":28380,"speaker":122,"num_words":27722,"start":11628,"end":11845},[28381,28383,28385,28387,28389],{"text":28382,"start":11628,"end":11648},"Also mein Take ist, das wird nicht fliegen.",{"text":28384,"start":11651,"end":11679},"Das also das kommt mir wie son ganz komischer Layer vor.",{"text":28386,"start":11679,"end":11703},"Also entweder ist es halt für Für die Faulen.",{"text":28388,"start":11707,"end":11813},"Ja, man würde halt denken, na ja, nicht erst zum einen für die Faulen, aber zum anderen auch irgendwie für Webseiten, also wo es irgendwie nötig ist, das sozusagen noch zu haben, aber die implementieren das dann irgendwie auf die nächsten Jahre auch nicht.",{"text":28390,"start":11813,"end":11845},"Also also, ne, jetzt viele Webseiten, die da draußen einfach nur rumgammeln.",{"sentences":28392,"speaker":122,"num_words":27639,"start":11848,"end":11894},[28393],{"text":28394,"start":11848,"end":11894},"Und bei den Neuen, ich glaub, da gibt's irgendwie bessere Wege darauf zuzugreifen als über diese diese Oberfläche.",{"sentences":28396,"speaker":143,"num_words":775,"start":11894,"end":11900},[28397],{"text":28398,"start":11894,"end":11900},"Wenn ihr",{"sentences":28400,"speaker":122,"num_words":28405,"start":11900,"end":11967},[28401,28403],{"text":28402,"start":11900,"end":11941},"jetzt an Booking dot com denken, die irgendwie halt Integration haben und so weiter.",{"text":28404,"start":11941,"end":11967},"Also ich glaub nicht daran, dass es 'n großes Ding wird.",25,{"sentences":28407,"speaker":143,"num_words":28418,"start":11969,"end":12162},[28408,28410,28412,28414,28416],{"text":28409,"start":11969,"end":11985},"Also ich war auch hin- und hergerissen.",{"text":28411,"start":11988,"end":12025},"Ich aber auf der einen Seite dacht ich mir, das ist ja eigentlich auch 'n Problem.",{"text":28413,"start":12025,"end":12086},"Also grade dieses Deklarative mit Du, ne, markierst einfach in deinem HTML, wie ist dieses Form zu benutzen und und bla bla bla.",{"text":28415,"start":12089,"end":12105},"Das ist ja eigentlich 'n reines Semantikproblem.",{"text":28417,"start":12109,"end":12162},"Also wenn man da mit superviel Aria und Labels und bla arbeiten würde, müsste das ja eigentlich heute schon krass maschinenlesbar",74,{"sentences":28420,"speaker":775,"num_words":27405,"start":12165,"end":12175},[28421,28422],{"text":2858,"start":12165,"end":12166},{"text":28423,"start":12166,"end":12175},"Ist ja auch.",{"sentences":28425,"speaker":819,"num_words":122,"start":12175,"end":12178},[28426],{"text":3266,"start":12175,"end":12178},{"sentences":28428,"speaker":143,"num_words":28434,"start":12178,"end":12354},[28429,28430,28432],{"text":1625,"start":12178,"end":12181},{"text":28431,"start":12184,"end":12209},"Und da ist, glaub ich, der Schritt halt relativ gering.",{"text":28433,"start":12212,"end":12354},"Und die Frage ist dann, bringt dir diese imperative API halt was, wo Du direkt irgendwie JavaScript Funktionalität exposen kannst, wo ich sagen würde, das ist wahrscheinlich da aber auch nur 'n Shortcut, weil da kann ja eigentlich auch keine Funktionalität hinter sein, die nicht auch schon in deinem UI irgendwie drin ist und irgendwie übers UI erreichbar gemacht.",70,{"sentences":28436,"speaker":819,"num_words":27405,"start":12357,"end":12367},[28437],{"text":28438,"start":12357,"end":12367},"Ich glaube, da ist",{"sentences":28440,"speaker":122,"num_words":27410,"start":12367,"end":12417},[28441],{"text":28442,"start":12367,"end":12417},"sone Zwischenlösung, die irgendwie mal ganz nett ist für sone Phase, aber die die mittelfristig halt völlig irrelevant ist.",{"sentences":28444,"speaker":775,"num_words":28455,"start":12417,"end":12791},[28445,28447,28449,28451,28453],{"text":28446,"start":12417,"end":12466},"Ja, weil auch wenn Du überlegst, also ich hab auch überlegt, was sind denn jetzt die genauen Use Case?",{"text":28448,"start":12466,"end":12595},"Deine Use Case, die Du vormarzt, ob 'n Flug buchen und so was, ist ja eigentlich, na ja gut, wenn grundsätzlich das Ganze über MCP funktionieren sollte, dann würd ich auch sagen, nicht über Web MCP, dann sollt, dann will ich ja sowieso nicht mit der Webseite irgendwie interagieren.",{"text":28450,"start":12595,"end":12642},"Dann muss es halt irgendwie einen Service geben, mit dem ich direkt interagieren kann, das nur aus der AI herausmache.",{"text":28452,"start":12646,"end":12675},"So ist das ja eigentlich der Use Case, wo ich dann hinkommen will.",{"text":28454,"start":12675,"end":12791},"Und wenn ich sage, ich hab so was wie, also ich konnt mir gedacht, okay, vielleicht ist so was wie, ich bin selbst am Surfen, bin auf 1 Seite und sag ab 'nem schönen Prozess, so, nimm Du mal den Checkout für mich so.",145,{"sentences":28457,"speaker":775,"num_words":28468,"start":12791,"end":13175},[28458,28460,28462,28464,28466],{"text":28459,"start":12791,"end":12819},"Also ich bin keine, oder könnt ja auch Shopping sein so.",{"text":28461,"start":12819,"end":12897},"Hab mir schon 'n paar Sachen ausgeht und sagst am Ende, boah, kein Bock so, mach Du den Rest so, check mal aus und geh mal bezahlen so ungefähr.",{"text":28463,"start":12900,"end":13031},"Und dann ist es so, also wenn da so mitten im Prozess anfängt, würd ich eigentlich auch eher erwarten, dass die AIs dann irgendwann so smart sind, dass sie einfach mit diesen Seiten umgehen können und die Seiten nicht explizites bauen müssen, in jedem Schritt auf einmal die Seite steuern zu können.",{"text":28465,"start":13031,"end":13124},"Sondern dass es dann dass eine AI oder dass wir generell in unserem in unserer Forschung von der AI davon abhängig sind, dass alle Seiten Integration für AI bauen, jede Seite noch mal steuern zu können.",{"text":28467,"start":13124,"end":13175},"Da glaub ich eher, dass es generalistisch gelöst wird und nicht über son Web und jeder Seite muss was implementieren.",148,{"sentences":28470,"speaker":775,"num_words":28475,"start":13178,"end":13376},[28471,28473],{"text":28472,"start":13178,"end":13244},"Und 'n anderen User Case, außer diesen so mittendrin seh ich nicht, weil für den Rest muss es ja generischere Schnittstellen geben als auf der Seite selbst.",{"text":28474,"start":13246,"end":13376},"Weil ja auch, wie Du gemeint hast, mit Tokenintensität und so, es macht das zwar besser, dein Use Case, den Du vorhin beschrieben hast, wo mir einfach immer alles passt, aber ist ja trotzdem noch mal Mengen oder Faktoren schlechter, als wenn ich gar nicht die Seite aufrufen müsste.",76,{"sentences":28477,"speaker":143,"num_words":27735,"start":13379,"end":13501},[28478,28480,28481,28483,28485],{"text":28479,"start":13379,"end":13428},"Na ja, aber Du rufst die Seite ja nicht mehr, also die Seite landet ja nicht mehr in deinem Kontext.",{"text":2311,"start":13431,"end":13432},{"text":28482,"start":13436,"end":13441},"Also wiederum.",{"text":28484,"start":13444,"end":13461},"Das ist halt schon ultraperformant so, ja.",{"text":28486,"start":13461,"end":13501},"Und das Einzige, was halt passieren muss, ist, dass der Browser an das LLM weiterreicht.",{"sentences":28488,"speaker":143,"num_words":27767,"start":13505,"end":13569},[28489,28491],{"text":28490,"start":13505,"end":13526},"Hier auf dieser Seite hab ich diese 3 Sachen gefunden.",{"text":28492,"start":13529,"end":13569},"Und das ist halt 'n sehr kleines, son son MCP Proxy sozusagen dann quasi nur noch.",{"sentences":28494,"speaker":122,"num_words":28145,"start":13569,"end":13612},[28495],{"text":28496,"start":13569,"end":13612},"Die ganzen Informationen gibst Du trotzdem auch immer raus, auch wenn gar keine AI mit dir redet.",{"sentences":28498,"speaker":819,"num_words":27405,"start":13615,"end":13623},[28499],{"text":28500,"start":13615,"end":13623},"Das heißt, da hast",{"sentences":28502,"speaker":122,"num_words":140,"start":13623,"end":13655},[28503],{"text":28504,"start":13623,"end":13655},"Du auch erst mal 'n riesen Overhead, einen Metainformationen, die",{"sentences":28506,"speaker":775,"num_words":28515,"start":13657,"end":13735},[28507,28509,28511,28513],{"text":28508,"start":13657,"end":13676},"Ja, also über die Leitung geht gleich viel.",{"text":28510,"start":13676,"end":13705},"Es glaub, es geht nur was Land in dem Kontext.",{"text":28512,"start":13705,"end":13724},"Und das kann ja dann sozusagen extrahiert werden.",{"text":28514,"start":13724,"end":13735},"Ich glaub, das ist weniger,",31,{"sentences":28517,"speaker":122,"num_words":27312,"start":13735,"end":13764},[28518],{"text":28519,"start":13735,"end":13764},"aber über die Leitung kommt erst mal mehr, weil über die Leitung",{"sentences":28521,"speaker":819,"num_words":27405,"start":13764,"end":13773},[28522],{"text":28523,"start":13764,"end":13773},"kommt erst mal mehr.",{"sentences":28525,"speaker":775,"num_words":27381,"start":13773,"end":13815},[28526,28528,28530],{"text":28527,"start":13773,"end":13803},"Die Seite ist erst mal theoretisch Aber gut, ich mein, das bisschen JavaScript.",{"text":28529,"start":13807,"end":13812},"Ah, genau.",{"text":211,"start":13812,"end":13815},{"sentences":28532,"speaker":819,"num_words":27405,"start":13819,"end":13830},[28533,28534],{"text":13822,"start":13819,"end":13820},{"text":28535,"start":13820,"end":13830},"Das Also Das",{"sentences":28537,"speaker":775,"num_words":27405,"start":13830,"end":13843},[28538],{"text":28539,"start":13830,"end":13843},"muss ich wirklich vernachlässigen.",{"sentences":28541,"speaker":143,"num_words":27405,"start":13843,"end":13854},[28542],{"text":28543,"start":13843,"end":13854},"Ja, ich glaub auch.",{"sentences":28545,"speaker":775,"num_words":28550,"start":13854,"end":13953},[28546,28548],{"text":28547,"start":13854,"end":13946},"Aber ich weiß auch gar nicht, also das wär ja trotzdem aber nicht, also dass der Kontext kleiner wird dadurch, kann ich mir nicht vorstellen, dass das das der USP ist, der's dann zum Abheben bringen soll.",{"text":28549,"start":13946,"end":13953},"Ich glaub, damit",40,{"sentences":28552,"speaker":143,"num_words":28434,"start":13956,"end":14142},[28553,28555,28557,28559],{"text":28554,"start":13956,"end":13987},"Also ich glaub, man muss ja immer auch gucken, wo's herkommt, so, ne.",{"text":28556,"start":13987,"end":14026},"Wenn man's jetzt überlegt, Google macht das, was fürn Incentive hat halt irgendwie Google?",{"text":28558,"start":14030,"end":14120},"Na gut, wenn das halbe Web halt irgendwie damit bedienbarer wird, dann ist halt Google, was irgendwie Automatisierung und Indizierung von dem halben Internet angeht, die haben halt schon 'n Incentive dafür so, ne.",{"text":28560,"start":14120,"end":14142},"Ob das angenommen wird oder nicht, schauen wir mal.",{"sentences":28562,"speaker":122,"num_words":28572,"start":14142,"end":14251},[28563,28565,28567,28568,28570],{"text":28564,"start":14142,"end":14158},"Für das halbe Internet, genau.",{"text":28566,"start":14158,"end":14180},"Müssen's ja auch erst mal alle dann implementieren irgendwie.",{"text":954,"start":14184,"end":14185},{"text":28569,"start":14187,"end":14193},"Na ja, egal.",{"text":28571,"start":14195,"end":14251},"Ich glaube, dann dann dann schenken sich die Leute, weil die AI hätte das trotzdem machen können, auch wenn das MCP Ding nicht da ist.",43,{"sentences":28574,"speaker":775,"num_words":819,"start":14251,"end":14262},[28575,28577],{"text":28576,"start":14251,"end":14258},"Denke auch.",{"text":14264,"start":14258,"end":14262},{"sentences":28579,"speaker":122,"num_words":775,"start":14266,"end":14272},[28580,28581],{"text":14269,"start":14266,"end":14267},{"text":14273,"start":14271,"end":14272},{"sentences":28583,"speaker":143,"num_words":27779,"start":14275,"end":14325},[28584],{"text":28585,"start":14275,"end":14325},"Wenn wir schon bei AI sind, dann, Fabi, erzähl uns doch mal, warum wir alle keinen Bock mehr auf AI haben.",{"sentences":28587,"speaker":122,"num_words":27398,"start":14328,"end":14343},[28588],{"text":28589,"start":14328,"end":14343},"Ja, mit mit alle bist Du gemeint.",{"sentences":28591,"speaker":143,"num_words":27398,"start":14346,"end":14361},[28592],{"text":28593,"start":14346,"end":14361},"Wieso bin ich da jetzt mit gemeint?",{"sentences":28595,"speaker":122,"num_words":27463,"start":14365,"end":14420},[28596,28598],{"text":28597,"start":14365,"end":14411},"Na ja, ist ja schon generell, sehr generalisierend zu sagen, weil wir alle keinen Bock mehr auf AI haben.",{"text":28599,"start":14411,"end":14420},"Bisschen polarisierend hier.",{"sentences":28601,"speaker":143,"num_words":28185,"start":14420,"end":14498},[28602,28604,28605,28607],{"text":28603,"start":14420,"end":14459},"Das ist gab es ist richtig auf Krawallgebühlt, weil's auch mal unterbinden.",{"text":2311,"start":14462,"end":14463},{"text":28606,"start":14463,"end":14484},"1 muss aber für Klicks sorgen hier, Dennis.",{"text":28608,"start":14484,"end":14498},"1 muss für die Klicks sorgen.",{"sentences":28610,"speaker":775,"num_words":28615,"start":14501,"end":14598},[28611,28613],{"text":28612,"start":14501,"end":14558},"Also ich erklär dem Dennis jetzt mal, warum der keinen oder warum der Dennis am Ende der Einzige ist, der noch Bock auf AI hat.",{"text":28614,"start":14558,"end":14598},"Und all seine Entwickler, die unter ihm sind, sagen so, Dennis, hör mir auf mit der Scheiße.",42,{"sentences":28617,"speaker":122,"num_words":27363,"start":14598,"end":14658},[28618,28620],{"text":28619,"start":14598,"end":14655},"Ich hab Bock auf AI und ich leide trotzdem jetzt schon, obwohl ich sehr wenig mache unter dem, was Du jetzt erklären wirst.",{"text":8568,"start":14655,"end":14658},{"sentences":28622,"speaker":143,"num_words":28176,"start":14658,"end":14734},[28623,28625],{"text":28624,"start":14658,"end":14717},"Ja, das wär nämlich jetzt auch mal mein meine Frage gewesen, nachdem Du letzte Woche 'n bisschen mehr damit gemacht hast, wie fertig Du bist.",{"text":28626,"start":14717,"end":14734},"Aber das schauen wir dann gleich mal.",{"sentences":28628,"speaker":775,"num_words":28637,"start":14734,"end":15037},[28629,28630,28632,28633,28635],{"text":2311,"start":14734,"end":14736},{"text":28631,"start":14736,"end":14777},"So, dann darf ich doch vielleicht, genau, lassen wir mal erzählen, worum's irgendwie geht.",{"text":1712,"start":14777,"end":14780},{"text":28634,"start":14780,"end":14857},"Es geht ja nicht keinen Bock mehr auf Es geht geht einen Blogbeitrag, der jetzt gar nicht so viral gegangen ist, weil so wir haben hier bisschen intern drüber diskutiert.",{"text":28636,"start":14861,"end":15037},"Der ist in meiner Timeline gespürt worden von jemandem Siland Karre, der hat einen Blog und ist auch so im AI Space unterwegs, hat zum Beispiel so was gebaut wie Distill, wo's son bisschen im Kontext geht, also LLM Kontext sozusagen, sie kleiner zu machen, eher auf mathematischen Modellen basiert, das Ganze zu machen, als jetzt 'n LLM noch mal über sonen Prompt drüber zu schicken.",112,{"sentences":28639,"speaker":775,"num_words":28650,"start":15041,"end":15346},[28640,28642,28644,28646,28648],{"text":28641,"start":15041,"end":15095},"Und grundsätzlich auch für Firmen arbeitet rund im im AI Space, also so Framework gebaut hat, wie Agenten sich autorisieren können.",{"text":28643,"start":15095,"end":15115},"Also jemand ist, der sehr affin dafür ist.",{"text":28645,"start":15115,"end":15153},"Und einen Artikel geschrieben hat mit dem, oder 'n Blogbeitrag mit dem Titel.",{"text":28647,"start":15156,"end":15269},"Und ich glaub son bisschen die Grundthese, die er macht und dann mit in verschiedene Bereiche irgendwie darauf eingeht, ist, dass es dass es das Paradox gibt durch die Arbeit mit AI und Agenten von sehr viel höherer Produktivität, aber auch sehr viel höherer Ausgelaugtheit.",{"text":28649,"start":15273,"end":15346},"Und bei ihm am am Ende des Tages auch landend in einem Burn out durch die neue Arbeitsweise, die sozusagen kommt damit, dass man mit AI jetzt zusammenarbeitet.",115,{"sentences":28652,"speaker":775,"num_words":28661,"start":15349,"end":15849},[28653,28655,28657,28659],{"text":28654,"start":15349,"end":15372},"Und son paar Thesen ist, die er dir durchgeht.",{"text":28656,"start":15372,"end":15509},"Also grundsätzlich man natürlich erst mal sagt, so durch diesen Produktivitätsboost, den man mit AI hat und wenn man sie auch so darauf einlässt, ist ja schon super krass einfach erst mal, wie viel produktiver ist, wie man wo man vorher vielleicht in einem Task gearbeitet hat, mittlerweile auch an mehreren Tasks parallel arbeitet.",{"text":28658,"start":15509,"end":15672},"Ja, so, die wir auch immer wieder in den AI News diskutiert haben jetzt mit den ganzen Tools, die wir jetzt irgendwie hatten, jetzt auch grade mit OpenAI, was wieder 'n neues Tool da vorausgebracht hat, auch Parallelisierung besser zu machen, ist es so, dass man ja eigentlich in seiner Rolle immer mehr hin zu einem und Orchestrierer kommt als zu einem Creator so.",{"text":28660,"start":15672,"end":15849},"Und das heißt, dass man eigentlich die Arbeit, was vorher so, sag ich mal, die Schaffenshürde relativ hoch war, Dinge, die wir auch schon mal diskutiert haben darüber so, dass man gesagt hat, man ist selbst, man kreiert selbst so Teil der Arbeit, wenn man im Teamarbeit, ist auch Reviewarbeit, aber man's ja da auch eher darauf verlassen kann so, hey, ich kenn meine Teamkollegen so, ich weiß, worauf ich vielleicht achten muss.",200,{"sentences":28663,"speaker":775,"num_words":28047,"start":15849,"end":15921},[28664,28666],{"text":28665,"start":15849,"end":15882},"Wenn ich irgendwie Reviews durchgeh, muss ich nicht Zeile für Zeile durchgehen.",{"text":28667,"start":15882,"end":15921},"Bei jeder Zeile denken, oh, da könnt jetzt 'n Fehler drinstecken, sondern sagen, hey, den Dennis",{"sentences":28669,"speaker":122,"num_words":27390,"start":15921,"end":15955},[28670,28672],{"text":28671,"start":15921,"end":15934},"kenn ich, den Dave kenn ich.",{"text":28673,"start":15934,"end":15955},"Ich kenn den seine Steckenpferde, da muss ich",{"sentences":28675,"speaker":775,"num_words":27325,"start":15955,"end":16203},[28676,28678,28680,28682,28684],{"text":28677,"start":15955,"end":15967},"vielleicht 'n bisschen genauer schauen.",{"text":28679,"start":15967,"end":16008},"Hier weiß ich, okay, ist der Opa eigentlich immer ziemlich gut und kann mich vielleicht drauf verlassen.",{"text":28681,"start":16008,"end":16100},"Aber grundsätzlich ist es jetzt so, je mehr wir automatisieren, je mehr wir AI orchestrieren, ist halt dieser Review Part unseres Jobs nimmt den Großteil eigentlich unserer Zeit son bisschen bisschen ein.",{"text":28683,"start":16100,"end":16159},"Und dass darin eigentlich erst mal so der Part steckt, dass das eigentlich eine ganz andere Jobbeschreibung ist, als sie das vorher son bisschen war.",{"text":28685,"start":16159,"end":16203},"Also vorher, es es ist einfach so, wie ich meine Zeit im im Alltag verbringe, etwas ganz anderes.",{"sentences":28687,"speaker":775,"num_words":28698,"start":16203,"end":16740},[28688,28690,28692,28694,28696],{"text":28689,"start":16203,"end":16347},"Und ich weiß nicht, wie's wie's vor vor AII bei euch auch war so, der Reviewteil, ich sag mal, in meiner Entwicklerzeit war das nicht der Teil, der mir am meisten Spaß gemacht hat an meinem Job so, aber er halt notwendig war, in einem Team gut zu funktionieren und das definitiv Sinn gemacht hat.",{"text":28691,"start":16347,"end":16381},"Aber der Part war, den ich eher notdürftig gemacht habe als mit dem großen Elan.",{"text":28693,"start":16381,"end":16636},"Und jetzt, wenn man sich das Ganze jetzt anschaut, ist es so, man hat jemanden, den man reviewen muss und vor allem eben nicht mehr davon ausgehen kann, deterministisch oder auch, also deterministisch oder so nicht, aber uns irgendwie auch nicht drauf verlassen kann, ja, die Bereich macht die AR schon immer gut und die nicht, sondern im Endeffekt in dem sich wandelnden und schnell bewegenden Bereich, in dem wir sind, ist es ja auch so mit neuen Modellen und so was, was vorher irgendwie 'nem Prompt, den der vorher immer relativ gleichmäßig denselben Output gebracht hat, bringt jetzt etwas ganz anderes.",{"text":28695,"start":16636,"end":16668},"Ich kann probieren, irgendwie meine Proms möglichst gut irgendwie zu designen.",{"text":28697,"start":16668,"end":16740},"Aber im Endeffekt muss ich sagen, eigentlich muss ich am Ende alles trotzdem noch mal durchschauen und kann mich eigentlich erst mal auf nichts verlassen, auch wenn die grundsätzlich besser werden.",214,{"sentences":28700,"speaker":775,"num_words":28711,"start":16740,"end":16993},[28701,28703,28705,28707,28709],{"text":28702,"start":16740,"end":16772},"Trotzdem kann ich mich eigentlich erst mal auf keine einzelne Zeile son bisschen verlassen.",{"text":28704,"start":16772,"end":16833},"Dazu dann natürlich auch noch diese Parts mit so dieses, er hat's jetzt genannt, Prompt spirals, also dass man irgendwie anfängt, irgendwas zu prompt.",{"text":28706,"start":16833,"end":16864},"Und man findet ja, ah, jetzt bin ich 75 Prozent Output.",{"text":28708,"start":16864,"end":16911},"Ich mach dann 'n bisschen, das mach ich bei 80 Prozent Output, ah, noch 'n Stückchen und so.",{"text":28710,"start":16911,"end":16993},"Und am Ende landet man vielleicht sogar wieder bei weniger Prozent oder bei nur minimal mehr Prozent, weil man gar nicht ganz weiß, wie viel Input muss ich denn noch geben, einen besseren Output zu bekommen?",103,{"sentences":28713,"speaker":775,"num_words":28724,"start":16993,"end":17288},[28714,28716,28718,28720,28722],{"text":28715,"start":16993,"end":17042},"Wann ist der Moment, wann ich vielleicht doch wieder selbst implementiere oder wann ich mich auf die AI verlasse?",{"text":28717,"start":17045,"end":17092},"Und damit als letzter Punkt, den er noch son bisschen aufgemacht hat, die Skill Atropie hat er sie genannt.",{"text":28719,"start":17092,"end":17154},"Also dass er sagt so, hey, früher war er irgendwie supergut darin, irgendwie am Whiteboard irgendwie Lösungen zu skizzieren und irgendwie Probleme zu durchdenken.",{"text":28721,"start":17157,"end":17266},"Und dieser Part mit irgendwie Probleme zu durchdenken, ist eigentlich sonen son son Skill, den er absolut irgendwie verliert dadurch, dass er sich halt eigentlich alle mental schwierigeren Aufgaben häufig sagt, so gut, die AR kann's ja dann, lass ich die AR machen.",{"text":28723,"start":17268,"end":17288},"Und genau, er am Ende über 2 Dinge redet.",114,{"sentences":28726,"speaker":775,"num_words":28650,"start":17288,"end":17580},[28727,28729,28731,28733,28735],{"text":28728,"start":17288,"end":17422},"So einerseits, dass er halt merkt so, dass dass wir, dass wir als als Industrie ja so oder so schon nicht gefeit davor waren oder eher anfällig dafür waren, dass Leute an Burn out leiden, so allein schon, was vor dem Speed irgendwie anging und irgendwie die Arbeitslast, die man irgendwie hatte.",{"text":28730,"start":17425,"end":17503},"Und jetzt aber durch die Arbeit mit AI diese Gefahr einfach noch sehr, sehr viel höher ist, weil wir vorher natürliche Limits waren mit, okay, 'n bestimmtes Problem braucht eine gewisse Zeit.",{"text":28732,"start":17503,"end":17527},"Es braucht eine gewisse Zeit, irgendwie vielleicht auch Probleme zu recherchieren.",{"text":28734,"start":17527,"end":17544},"Ich kann sie in Ruhe durchdenken.",{"text":28736,"start":17544,"end":17580},"Es gibt einfach 'n natürliches Limit, wie viel ich an 'nem Tag schaffen kann.",{"sentences":28738,"speaker":775,"num_words":28749,"start":17582,"end":17964},[28739,28741,28743,28745,28747],{"text":28740,"start":17582,"end":17640},"Hat sie einfach jetzt komplett verschoben und die Arbeit hin zu, denk ich, eher Arbeit, die uns allen wahrscheinlich weniger als mehr Spaß macht.",{"text":28742,"start":17640,"end":17670},"Und zwar da eher der zu sein als derjenige, der was erschafft.",{"text":28744,"start":17673,"end":17760},"Und genau, eher son paar Dinge auch aufgeschrieben hat, deswegen das damit würd ich jetzt, werd ich bei erst mal bei dem Tag son bisschen aufhören, weil ich gern wissen wollte, wie's wie's euch damit geht so.",{"text":28746,"start":17760,"end":17834},"Ob ihr dem erst mal folgt, irgendwie ähnliche Effekte seht, dann hat er noch 'n bisschen darüber geredet, was er jetzt mittlerweile tut, dem son bisschen entgegenzuwirken.",{"text":28748,"start":17837,"end":17964},"Aber ich muss erst mal sagen, es hat auch, glaub ich, bei uns hier in der Firma, zumindest bei einigen Verkehrs, irgendwie son Gefühl, was ich komplett irgendwie nachvollziehen kann, dieses irgendwie sehr viel ausgelaukt sein von 'nem Arbeitsalltag mit der Orchestrierung von AI, als man das vorher war.",149,{"sentences":28751,"speaker":775,"num_words":27779,"start":17966,"end":18020},[28752],{"text":28753,"start":17966,"end":18020},"Genau, mit mir hat's auch total resoniert und ich mich würde erst mal interessieren, was ihr was ihr so dazu denkt.",{"sentences":28755,"speaker":143,"num_words":28418,"start":18023,"end":18208},[28756,28758,28760,28762,28764],{"text":28757,"start":18023,"end":18041},"Also ich ich bin da auch voll dabei.",{"text":28759,"start":18041,"end":18059},"Ich wollt nur 2 Punkte ergänzen.",{"text":28761,"start":18059,"end":18125},"Das eine, Dennis hatte ja letzte Woche bei uns diese AI Dates, AI Coffees veranstaltet, wo wir auch mal son bisschen in dem Team darüber gesprochen haben.",{"text":28763,"start":18125,"end":18186},"Und was da 'n ganz interessanten Take fand oder einfach vorher nicht so dran gedacht hab, war das das auch unseren Designern genauso geht.",{"text":28765,"start":18188,"end":18208},"Ja, also wir reden da immer nur so kommend",{"sentences":28767,"speaker":819,"num_words":775,"start":18208,"end":18215},[28768],{"text":28769,"start":18208,"end":18215},"warum aus",{"sentences":28771,"speaker":143,"num_words":28782,"start":18215,"end":18461},[28772,28774,28776,28778,28780],{"text":28773,"start":18215,"end":18257},"dieser Brille mit, na ja, wir haben hier Code Review und wir gucken hier viel Code an und bla.",{"text":28775,"start":18260,"end":18311},"Aber ich hab da mit unser Designer angesprochen und jemand auch gesagt, na ja, ist halt für uns genau dasselbe, ne?",{"text":28777,"start":18311,"end":18374},"Wir generieren hier so stupide Bilder vor uns her im Prinzip und hoffen, hier mal was anzupassen und da mal was zu machen und so.",{"text":28779,"start":18376,"end":18441},"Aber dieses dieses Phänomen, was er da in diesem Blogpost beschreibt mit und Review ist Training, Das ist halt für im Prinzip alle so, ja.",{"text":28781,"start":18441,"end":18461},"Und also wahrscheinlich sogar Ist das auch bei",98,{"sentences":28784,"speaker":775,"num_words":27815,"start":18461,"end":18486},[28785,28787],{"text":28786,"start":18461,"end":18478},"bei Design sogar fast noch schlimmer.",{"text":28788,"start":18478,"end":18486},"Ich hör das",{"sentences":28790,"speaker":122,"num_words":819,"start":18486,"end":18493},[28791],{"text":28792,"start":18486,"end":18493},"ja jetzt ja",{"sentences":28794,"speaker":775,"num_words":27865,"start":18493,"end":18664},[28795,28797,28799,28801,28803],{"text":28796,"start":18493,"end":18515},"auch dadurch, dass wir superviel Image machen so.",{"text":28798,"start":18515,"end":18565},"Dadurch, dass der mit jedem prompt eigentlich, also grad das Verändern, so das iterative Verändern viel, viel schwieriger ist so.",{"text":28800,"start":18565,"end":18594},"Du machst ja auch immer so, ah, das ist schon gut.",{"text":28802,"start":18594,"end":18607},"Kleinigkeiten gefallen mir noch nicht.",{"text":28804,"start":18607,"end":18664},"Und dann machst, probierst einfach noch mal das gleiche Image zu generieren, weil mit demselben Input dann auch irgendwie die Qualität dann immer flöten geht.",{"sentences":28806,"speaker":775,"num_words":27639,"start":18664,"end":18711},[28807],{"text":28808,"start":18664,"end":18711},"Und ich mein, immerhin bei Code ist es so, dass ich bestimmte Teile, irgendwie Teile schau mal, schau",{"sentences":28810,"speaker":819,"num_words":775,"start":18711,"end":18718},[28811],{"text":28812,"start":18711,"end":18718},"mal, dass",{"sentences":28814,"speaker":775,"num_words":28825,"start":18718,"end":19033},[28815,28817,28819,28821,28823],{"text":28816,"start":18718,"end":18741},"noch mal das anfenne und noch mal hier was.",{"text":28818,"start":18741,"end":18857},"Und bei Bild ist ja wirklich so, prompt rein, Image raus, wenn's nicht funktioniert hat, noch mal neu den prompt, weil Image rein, kann ich auch nur bedingt häufig machen, weil am Ende, wenn ich's zehnmal mach, ist die Qualität so, dass es gar nicht mehr funktioniert.",{"text":28820,"start":18857,"end":18926},"Also ich fand wirklich, da hatt ich echt, ich hatte 2 sehr intensive Tage, wo ich probiert hab, son bisschen das Prompt Design für unsere Images zu machen.",{"text":28822,"start":18926,"end":18977},"Und ich wirklich 2 Tage, wo ich gemerkt hab, boah, ich war danach vom Kopf her so fertig davon, weil's irgendwie war.",{"text":28824,"start":18977,"end":19033},"Man war die ganze Zeit in diesem Feeling von, ah, man ist so bisschen kurz davor und dann sind manchmal 3 Stunden flöten gegangen.",130,{"sentences":28827,"speaker":775,"num_words":27381,"start":19033,"end":19078},[28828,28830],{"text":28829,"start":19033,"end":19073},"Man dacht so, ich bin aber, bin ich jetzt eigentlich weitergekommen oder bin ich zurückgelaufen?",{"text":2311,"start":19077,"end":19078},{"sentences":28832,"speaker":143,"num_words":28842,"start":19081,"end":19298},[28833,28834,28836,28838,28840],{"text":2311,"start":19081,"end":19082},{"text":28835,"start":19082,"end":19141},"Und der der zweite Punkt ist, weil Du so sagtest, na ja, Review war nicht so der Teil, der dir früher immer Spaß gemacht hat.",{"text":28837,"start":19141,"end":19250},"Ich glaube, Review kann schon auch son sehr befriedigenden Moment haben, wenn man das mit Menschen zusammen macht, weil man sagt, ey guck mal, ne, ich ich Review jetzt hier den Code von 'nem von 'nem Junior, der von jedem der neuen Team ist.",{"text":28839,"start":19250,"end":19264},"Ich erklär dem was und bla.",{"text":28841,"start":19264,"end":19298},"Und dann denkst Du dir am Ende na ja, der hat jetzt halt was gelernt.",91,{"sentences":28844,"speaker":143,"num_words":28855,"start":19298,"end":19651},[28845,28847,28849,28851,28853],{"text":28846,"start":19298,"end":19353},"Und das nächste Mal wird es besser und Du hast da halt so, das ist son Invest und irgendwann gibt's da 'n Return.",{"text":28848,"start":19356,"end":19481},"Aber wenn Du halt deinem Coding Agent fünfmal erklärst, warum halt an der Stelle das nicht so zu tun ist, ja, natürlich kannst Du's irgendwann 'n bisschen in deine Agents übernehmen und 'n paar Roots schreiben und so, aber es ist halt, da ist nicht dieses organische Wachstum drin, ja.",{"text":28850,"start":19481,"end":19539},"Es fühlt sich nicht wie son sinnvoller Zeitinvest an, irgendwie so l m generierten Code irgendwie noch mal zu reviewen und anzupassen.",{"text":28852,"start":19543,"end":19635},"Weil die Chance, dass es halt beim nächsten Mal noch mal oder anderweitig aufpoppt, halt irgendwie schon hoffentlich größer ist als beim beim Menschen, ja, der der vielleicht eher was gelernt hat aus der der Nummer so, ja.",{"text":28854,"start":19635,"end":19651},"Da willst Du Das sind",138,{"sentences":28857,"speaker":122,"num_words":28864,"start":19651,"end":19749},[28858,28860,28862],{"text":28859,"start":19651,"end":19668},"wir lernen grade sehr große Hoffnungen.",{"text":28861,"start":19668,"end":19728},"Und mich, na ja, so letzte Woche einiges einiges ein Code gerivühlt, den ich zusammen mit Claudia zusammen gehackt habe.",{"text":28863,"start":19730,"end":19749},"Und die Hoffnung besteht, dass es besser ist.",34,{"sentences":28866,"speaker":775,"num_words":28877,"start":19749,"end":20252},[28867,28869,28871,28873,28875],{"text":28868,"start":19749,"end":19852},"Aber ich mein diesen ganzen Part, genau, dieses so, man investiert und es sind ja erst mal Zeit, die am Ende dann aber einfach nur verloren ist, weil man muss es im Endeffekt kontinuierlich machen und der Prozess wird dann natürlich nicht besser.",{"text":28870,"start":19852,"end":19937},"Da hat er in seinem, sie dann in seinem Artikel auch noch mal eigentlich das Gleiche gesagt bei Dingen, was was den die Optimierung des eigenen AI Prozesses angeht, also wie ich AI nutze.",{"text":28872,"start":19937,"end":20070},"Sowohl er meinte so, dass er im letzten Jahr irgendwie 2 Wochen irgendwie super fein granularprom betrieben hat, sich da irgendwie Librarys für geschaffen hat, wo er dann irgendwie eine Versionierung davon auch hatte und irgendwie für bestimmte Modelle da so wirklich seine bis ins Detail designt hatte.",{"text":28874,"start":20070,"end":20184},"Und da irgendwie kam 'n Woche später 'n neues Modell und dann hat er gesagt, ja gut, eigentlich sind jetzt, was vorher irgendwie ich mit meinen Singlesshot Templates irgendwie gemacht habe und irgendwie mein ist jetzt mit 'nem einfachen eigentlich jetzt schon besser als vorher war.",{"text":28876,"start":20184,"end":20252},"Und er irgendwie sagt so dieser, Du hast so viele Momente von grade wie wie ja auch AI Tools und so was, wie wie schnell's irgendwie gehypt wird.",199,{"sentences":28879,"speaker":775,"num_words":28890,"start":20252,"end":20503},[28880,28882,28884,28886,28888],{"text":28881,"start":20252,"end":20330},"Web MCP als Beispiel jetzt wieder so, wo Du dich irgendwie reinfuchsen kannst und irgendwie 2 Monate später ist schon wieder so, hey, es ist einfach hier jetzt wieder was komplett anderes und so.",{"text":28883,"start":20330,"end":20395},"Wo ist es wirklich, was sind die Themen, die ich mir jetzt wirklich aneignen muss, die mir irgendwie 'n Skill bringen, wo ich später 'n Vorteil davon habe?",{"text":28885,"start":20395,"end":20450},"Und was ist etwas, wo man sagt, das ist jetzt kurz Thema, aber bei neuen Modellen ist es vielleicht schon wieder gar kein Thema.",{"text":28887,"start":20450,"end":20475},"Und so die Frage, wo investiere ich meine Zeit dran?",{"text":28889,"start":20475,"end":20503},"Was ist wirklich nachhaltig und was ist im Endeffekt vergeudete Mühen?",107,{"sentences":28892,"speaker":775,"num_words":28515,"start":20503,"end":20582},[28893,28894,28896],{"text":1459,"start":20503,"end":20507},{"text":28895,"start":20507,"end":20579},"Und also da ist ja Review 'n sehr gutes Beispiel von dir noch mal, Jan, aber er sagt eigentlich generell auf allgemein, auf die Adaption von neuen AI Tools.",{"text":2311,"start":20579,"end":20582},{"sentences":28898,"speaker":819,"num_words":28418,"start":20584,"end":20764},[28899,28901,28903,28905,28907],{"text":28900,"start":20584,"end":20612},"Ich glaub, das trägt auch voll dazu bei, dass man sich ausgeloggt fühlt.",{"text":28902,"start":20612,"end":20634},"Also ich glaub, er hat's in dem Artikel beschrieben als.",{"text":28904,"start":20638,"end":20691},"So, man hat immer das Gefühl so, ich muss da hinterherkommen, oh, neues Modell, ich muss es austesten, oh, ist es besser.",{"text":28906,"start":20693,"end":20719},"Aber man eigentlich nie auf 'nem Standard ist, dem allen gefällt.",{"text":28908,"start":20719,"end":20764},"Also quasi, wenn man denkt, okay, das ist jetzt 10 Prozent besser, oh, dann musst Du ja's nutzen.",{"sentences":28910,"speaker":819,"num_words":28864,"start":20764,"end":20848},[28911,28913,28915],{"text":28912,"start":20764,"end":20799},"Das andere ist ja jetzt auch parallel rausgekommen, wo sind die Unterschiede und so.",{"text":28914,"start":20799,"end":20840},"Und ich glaub, das trägt dazu auch noch bei, nie so auf 'nem zufriedenstellenden Standard zu sein, ne.",{"text":28916,"start":20840,"end":20848},"Anders Und",{"sentences":28918,"speaker":775,"num_words":28928,"start":20848,"end":21025},[28919,28921,28922,28924,28926],{"text":28920,"start":20848,"end":20906},"das, was wenn Du was gelernt hast, so oder so, das sind dreimal schon wahrscheinlich wieder komplett obsolet, was Du da gelernt hast, so.",{"text":2311,"start":20906,"end":20908},{"text":28923,"start":20908,"end":20937},"Das heißt, Du optimierst eigentlich immer nur was für den Status quo.",{"text":28925,"start":20937,"end":20988},"Und der Status quo erinnert sich so schnell, dass optimieren für den Status quo sich eigentlich gar nicht wirklich lohnt.",{"text":28927,"start":20991,"end":21025},"Aber andererseits fühlt sich's auch gleichzeitig so an, als würde man sonst komplett abgehängt werden.",72,{"sentences":28930,"speaker":819,"num_words":122,"start":21027,"end":21028},[28931],{"text":2728,"start":21027,"end":21028},{"sentences":28933,"speaker":122,"num_words":28944,"start":21031,"end":21510},[28934,28936,28938,28940,28942],{"text":28935,"start":21031,"end":21104},"Also deswegen Ja, auch im kleineren find ich, ist, also das wär jetzt eher dann auch 'n bisschen langfristig, wenn Du, ne, Weiterbildung und wie viel investierst Du.",{"text":28937,"start":21104,"end":21162},"Aber muss auch, also ich hab auch festgestellt, auch allein dieses, also dieses Parallele ist, glaub ich, einfach was, was irgendwie 'n bisschen fertigmacht.",{"text":28939,"start":21165,"end":21308},"Ich würde sagen, ich hatte ganz selten als Entwickler früher das Gefühl, jetzt, ne, besonders ausgelaugt zu sein abends oder dass am nächsten Morgen jetzt, oh, jetzt sind ganz frische Ideen, das ist mal passiert oder so, dass am nächsten Morgen man klar drauf geguckt hat, aber so grundsätzlich hatt ich kein Problem mit dem Arbeitstag so.",{"text":28941,"start":21308,"end":21400},"Und ich hab jetzt ja lange nicht mehr entwickelt und jetzt aber die letzten Tage die Möglichkeit gehabt, 'n bisschen mehr wieder an der Programmierbarwebsite und Automatisierung da zu machen und das halt komplett mit Cloud gemacht.",{"text":28943,"start":21402,"end":21510},"Und ich muss sagen, obwohl ich mich als jemanden, also ich schwärz mich als jemanden an, indem das eigentlich sehr gut liegt, parallel die ganze Zeit Kleinigkeiten zu machen, weil ich das auch im Alltag, ne, es kommen immer irgendwie Themen, ich mach kurz was und so.",193,{"sentences":28946,"speaker":122,"num_words":28957,"start":21510,"end":21750},[28947,28949,28951,28953,28955],{"text":28948,"start":21510,"end":21540},"Ich switche dauerhaft Kontext und sehe das als 1 meiner Stärken.",{"text":28950,"start":21543,"end":21585},"Und und trotzdem war's da bei mir abends so, dass ich dachte, ach komm, irgendwie ist mir scheißegal.",{"text":28952,"start":21585,"end":21618},"Also ich ich hab versucht, so parallel son bisschen Notizen zu machen schon.",{"text":28954,"start":21618,"end":21690},"Okay, hier dem Thread muss ich gedanklich noch daran danken, da muss ich vorher auch noch nie gemacht hab, irgendwie viel Notizen zu machen, was als Nächstes kommt.",{"text":28956,"start":21692,"end":21750},"Und dann einfach so unterbewusst gemerkt, ey, ich war irgendwie danach fertig und abends und am nächsten Tag dann wieder, also ging dann wieder besser.",95,{"sentences":28959,"speaker":122,"num_words":28970,"start":21750,"end":21874},[28960,28962,28964,28966,28968],{"text":28961,"start":21750,"end":21770},"Das hat natürlich auch gleich mehr Spaß gemacht.",{"text":28963,"start":21770,"end":21806},"Aber da einfach up to date zu bleiben so, was sind eigentlich die Gedanken?",{"text":28965,"start":21806,"end":21845},"Weil Du immer nur so kurz in diesem Gedankenfenster bist, ach, hier war eigentlich das Problem.",{"text":28967,"start":21845,"end":21866},"Und das hat ja schon relativ viel Kontext irgendwie.",{"text":28969,"start":21866,"end":21874},"Warum mach ich das?",51,{"sentences":28972,"speaker":122,"num_words":28434,"start":21874,"end":22042},[28973,28975,28977,28979,28981],{"text":28974,"start":21874,"end":21886},"Wo wollt ich drauf achten?",{"text":28976,"start":21889,"end":21902},"Was wollt ich noch mal kontrollieren?",{"text":28978,"start":21905,"end":21949},"Und das dann halt komplett zu switchen zu 'nem ganz anderen, ach, das ist eine auch eine coole Thematik.",{"text":28980,"start":21953,"end":22001},"Und noch mal mehr vielleicht auch, weil AI so viel ermöglicht, auch noch mehr zu machen, als man früher gemacht hätte, ne.",{"text":28982,"start":22001,"end":22042},"Wo man jetzt so denkt, ach ja, krass, ist ja eigentlich cool, wenn wir das auch noch hätten.",{"sentences":28984,"speaker":122,"num_words":28991,"start":22042,"end":22160},[28985,28987,28989],{"text":28986,"start":22042,"end":22053},"Okay, ist ja kein Problem.",{"text":28988,"start":22053,"end":22088},"Ich kann ja einfach nur schnell eine LinkedIn loslagen, wie er das macht so.",{"text":28990,"start":22088,"end":22160},"Hättest Du halt vorher nicht gesagt, ja, ich bau das Feature noch grade schnell mit ein, sondern hat aber gedacht, ja, komm, das ist einfach der Status quo und fertig.",49,{"sentences":28993,"speaker":775,"num_words":122,"start":22160,"end":22162},[28994],{"text":2728,"start":22160,"end":22162},{"sentences":28996,"speaker":122,"num_words":27896,"start":22162,"end":22249},[28997,28999,29001,29003],{"text":28998,"start":22162,"end":22207},"Und so geht man halt immer auch noch einen Schritt weiter, was irgendwie die Qualität und den Umfang angeht.",{"text":29000,"start":22207,"end":22213},"Und Ja.",{"text":29002,"start":22215,"end":22235},"Das irgendwo zu begrenzen, war's wahrscheinlich schon Sinn.",{"text":29004,"start":22235,"end":22249},"Oder irgendwie halt Wege zu finden,",{"sentences":29006,"speaker":775,"num_words":775,"start":22252,"end":22257},[29007],{"text":29008,"start":22252,"end":22257},"zu gehen.",{"sentences":29010,"speaker":819,"num_words":29018,"start":22260,"end":22417},[29011,29012,29013,29014,29016],{"text":2311,"start":22260,"end":22261},{"text":2311,"start":22264,"end":22265},{"text":2311,"start":22265,"end":22267},{"text":29015,"start":22267,"end":22366},"Aber würd ich sagen, das ist auch eigentlich so der der größte Punkt, was Du gesagt hast mit dem Kontext wechseln, weil so wie Du beschrieben hast von wegen, also Du, Fabi, von wegen, man ist zeitlich limitiert durch den Tasks.",{"text":29017,"start":22366,"end":22417},"Es gab ja einfach Tasks, da hat man einen Tag drangesessen, dann vielleicht noch mal 'n Review gemacht und das war's.",65,{"sentences":29020,"speaker":819,"num_words":29031,"start":22420,"end":22701},[29021,29023,29025,29027,29029],{"text":29022,"start":22420,"end":22494},"Son, wie Du das bestimmt erinnerst, Du hast ja irgendwie so 5 Sachen parallel gehabt und dann immer auch drauf zu achten, was war hier wichtig, was war da wichtig?",{"text":29024,"start":22494,"end":22517},"Ich glaub, also das ist allein schon anstrengend so.",{"text":29026,"start":22517,"end":22614},"Sich, also man kann nie in son Tunnel kommen, was, glaub ich, bei vielen voll wichtig ist, sonen Fokus zu haben und einfach mal 2, 3 Stunden durchzuballern, bevor man durch irgendwie 'n Meeting oder so dann unterbrochen wird.",{"text":29028,"start":22614,"end":22675},"Und allein, dass das fehlt und man das immer so einfach parallelisieren muss und nie diesen Fokus bekommt, ich glaub, das ist auch sehr, sehr anstrengend einfach.",{"text":29030,"start":22675,"end":22701},"Also von daher stimm ich da, glaub ich, 100 Prozent zu.",116,{"sentences":29033,"speaker":122,"num_words":27398,"start":22703,"end":22723},[29034],{"text":29035,"start":22703,"end":22723},"Und auch da wird's ja megasppendend, wie",{"sentences":29037,"speaker":775,"num_words":27343,"start":22723,"end":22734},[29038,29040],{"text":29039,"start":22723,"end":22730},"das ist, ne.",{"text":29041,"start":22730,"end":22734},"Ich werd",{"sentences":29043,"speaker":122,"num_words":28455,"start":22734,"end":23086},[29044,29046,29048,29050],{"text":29045,"start":22734,"end":22800},"mir schon mal drüber diskutiert, das letzte Mal, glaub ich, dass gefühlt unsere Tasks aktuell, die wir in angeben, auch noch irgendwie relativ kleinteilig sind.",{"text":29047,"start":22800,"end":22906},"Wo wir jetzt irgendwie Laufzeiten haben von, weiß ich nicht, 5 Minuten, 10 Minuten, aber noch nicht so irgendwie, dass wir sagen, okay, der arbeitet jetzt 'n halben Tag oder 'n Tag dran und dann guck ich mal, ne, was man ja teilweise auch schon liest.",{"text":29049,"start":22909,"end":23001},"Wenn das mehr noch dahin geht, ne, dass Du irgendwie noch größere Blöcke hast, die noch größere Abstände haben, wo man sich dann irgendwo damit beschäftigen kann danach, dann reduziert es das vielleicht auch wieder, das Problem 'n bisschen.",{"text":29051,"start":23004,"end":23086},"Und trotzdem ist ja die Frage, was füllst Du die Zeit, in der Du praktisch, ne, grade auf einen Task wartest, was ja sehr spannend wird, wie wie was da sinnvoll ist in der Zukunft.",{"sentences":29053,"speaker":775,"num_words":28455,"start":23089,"end":23451},[29054,29056,29058],{"text":29055,"start":23089,"end":23158},"Ja, aber ich glaub halt auch son bisschen dieser Partner, ich sag mir hatten wir im letzten Mal in der News Folge über Security Probleme mit AI und so.",{"text":29057,"start":23158,"end":23288},"Und ich glaube auch schon, das ist auch das, was Du in dem Artikel meint, son bisschen diese Fatique, die man dadurch bekommt durchaus Also selbst wenn es dann länger läuft, ist es am Ende so, Du wirst ja immer mehr in die Rolle kommen, ich entscheide, ich bewerte, ich Review so.",{"text":29059,"start":23288,"end":23451},"Und ich glaube schon, dass diese so auch einfach Taubheit irgendwann zu sagen, so, ich hab gar keine Lust mehr, jetzt irgendwie diese Entscheidung zu treffen, jedes Mal noch mal drüber zu gucken und noch mal die Dinge dazu sein, dass jetzt irgendwie Reviewd und irgendwie sicherzugehen, dass alles irgendwie passt, sodass Du, glaub ich, superschnell in dieses Mentallding dann von reinkommst, ja, ah",{"sentences":29061,"speaker":819,"num_words":819,"start":23453,"end":23462},[29062],{"text":29063,"start":23453,"end":23462},"Wird schon passen.",{"sentences":29065,"speaker":775,"num_words":29072,"start":23465,"end":23651},[29066,29068,29070],{"text":29067,"start":23465,"end":23477},"Wird schon passen, so ungefähr.",{"text":29069,"start":23477,"end":23644},"Und weil weil's halt nicht so ist, so, Du bist nicht derjenige, der's und irgendwie baut und irgendwie auch vielleicht auch einen Stolz damit verbindest, dass Du irgendwie eine gute Arbeit abliefern willst, besonders irgendwann ist so, ey, wenn ich am Ende echt nur noch irgendwie Outputs bewertet so, da wird, also keine Ahnung, bei mir wird da auf jeden Fall der Schlendrian irgendwie reinkommen und so.",{"text":29071,"start":23644,"end":23651},"Also so Das",75,{"sentences":29074,"speaker":819,"num_words":27831,"start":23651,"end":23853},[29075,29077,29079,29081,29083],{"text":29076,"start":23651,"end":23686},"find ich, das find ich, das ist echt 'n guter Punkt, so also Punkt Ownership.",{"text":29078,"start":23686,"end":23753},"Weil ich muss sagen, ich fand das auch damals geil so irgendwie, wenn ich son Feature entwickelt habe, so, wir haben als Ziel natürlich entschieden, was machen wir?",{"text":29080,"start":23753,"end":23809},"Aber dann so, ich hab das gebaut und das ist im Spiel, ich hab das auch irgendwie so, oh geil, das hab ich gebaut so.",{"text":29082,"start":23809,"end":23824},"Das hab ich voll gern benutzt so.",{"text":29084,"start":23824,"end":23853},"Und jetzt ist so, na ja, also ich hab's nur orchestriert so.",{"sentences":29086,"speaker":819,"num_words":27363,"start":23853,"end":23911},[29087,29089,29091],{"text":29088,"start":23853,"end":23881},"Hab ich da auch genau diese diese Wertschätzung für meine Arbeit selbst so?",{"text":29090,"start":23881,"end":23891},"Wahrscheinlich nicht am Ende.",{"text":29092,"start":23895,"end":23911},"Und das, also Das ist ja aber",{"sentences":29094,"speaker":143,"num_words":28724,"start":23913,"end":24202},[29095,29097,29099,29101,29103],{"text":29096,"start":23913,"end":23919},"'n Du Problem.",{"text":29098,"start":23922,"end":23931},"Also Yeah, hey.",{"text":29100,"start":23935,"end":24036},"Ganz ehrlich, ich glaub, Ich glaub, da kommen wir nicht drum rum irgendwie zu sagen, ist egal, ob Du's selber geschrieben hast oder ob Du's nur orchestriert bist orchestriert hast, Du musst halt schon irgendwie Verantwortung und Ownership dafür übernehmen.",{"text":29102,"start":24039,"end":24149},"So, und das ist, glaub ich, was, was son Mindsetwechsel halt ist und für uns wahrscheinlich son bisschen schwieriger, weil, ne, wie Du grade beschrieben hast, Dave, wir kommen halt irgendwie oder wir wir bringen sone Vergangenheit mit, wo Ownership halt noch anders ausgesehen hat.",{"text":29104,"start":24149,"end":24202},"Aber ich glaub, grade für Leute, die halt jetzt irgendwie damit anfangen, die haben halt schon auch Ownership, wenn sie halt sagen, Du.",{"sentences":29106,"speaker":143,"num_words":27722,"start":24205,"end":24415},[29107,29109,29111],{"text":29108,"start":24205,"end":24237},"Ich hab hier was zusammen gepromtet und das hat mein Agent geschrieben ohne mich.",{"text":29110,"start":24237,"end":24303},"Aber das hat halt mein Agent mit meinen Instructions und meinen Skills und meinem Kontext und bla und das gehört dann schon irgendwie also son bisschen zusammen.",{"text":29112,"start":24303,"end":24415},"Was ich noch sagen wollte zu Fabi eben wegen der wegen der Review, ich glaube, was sich halt auch ändert, ist son bisschen die die Grundhaltung, mit der man dann sone Review rangeht, weil zumindest, also keine toxischen Teams und so was, ne,",{"sentences":29114,"speaker":775,"num_words":27405,"start":24415,"end":24427},[29115],{"text":29116,"start":24415,"end":24427},"aber ich Sei, sei",{"sentences":29118,"speaker":122,"num_words":819,"start":24430,"end":24437},[29119],{"text":29120,"start":24430,"end":24437},"sei also ehrlich.",{"sentences":29122,"speaker":819,"num_words":27405,"start":24440,"end":24451},[29123,29125],{"text":29124,"start":24440,"end":24445},"Nein, nein.",{"text":29126,"start":24445,"end":24451},"Ich mein",{"sentences":29128,"speaker":143,"num_words":29139,"start":24451,"end":24776},[29129,29131,29133,29135,29137],{"text":29130,"start":24451,"end":24535},"jetzt nicht wegen dir Dennis oder so, aber früher hast Du ja schon so gedacht, na ja, jeder Developer, dessen Code ich dir anguckt, der kommt ja mit Best intentions hier irgendwie her, ja.",{"text":29132,"start":24535,"end":24641},"Und wenn ich jetzt an diesen Polryquest denk Dennis, wo wir diese Redirects uns angeschaut haben, ne, und dann die AI so sagt halt, ja, ich nutz hier dieses Verselle Feature und automatisier die Redirects im Hintergrund und so.",{"text":29134,"start":24641,"end":24680},"Und dann guckt man den Code an und denkt sich so, nee, das passiert hier einfach nicht.",{"text":29136,"start":24680,"end":24730},"So, das hast Du dir zwar ausgedacht und dieses Feature von Verselle gibt es auch, aber es wird halt einfach nicht genutzt.",{"text":29138,"start":24730,"end":24776},"Das heißt, man muss halt schon auch so mit soner halben Stufe Misstrauen mehr irgendwie da reingehen.",129,{"sentences":29141,"speaker":143,"num_words":27767,"start":24780,"end":24849},[29142,29144],{"text":29143,"start":24780,"end":24814},"Und das ist ja auch einfach kein kein entspanntes gesundes Arbeiten so, ne?",{"text":29145,"start":24814,"end":24849},"Wenn Du die ganze Zeit son sone gewisse Anonymität deiner Arbeit gegenüber hast.",{"sentences":29147,"speaker":122,"num_words":28842,"start":24851,"end":25086},[29148,29150,29152,29154,29156],{"text":29149,"start":24851,"end":24944},"Aber auch hier könnte man jetzt argumentieren, auch 'n temporäres Ding, ähnlich wie Web MCSP, so, ne, die Qualität die die Qualität wird insofern steigen, dass man sich teilweise darum nicht mehr kümmern muss.",{"text":29151,"start":24944,"end":24959},"Das löst noch nicht unser Arbeitsproblem.",{"text":29153,"start":24963,"end":24995},"Also ne, wir müssen trotzdem irgendwie gucken, wie der aufgeht in der neuen Rolle so.",{"text":29155,"start":24995,"end":25063},"Das ist mit Sicherheit eine Herausforderung, die wir lösen müssen und wo vielleicht auch nicht jeder Bock drauf hat tatsächlich auf auf die Art der Arbeit dann.",{"text":29157,"start":25066,"end":25086},"Aber vielleicht wird zumindest dieser Code 'n bisschen, ja.",{"sentences":29159,"speaker":775,"num_words":29031,"start":25086,"end":25383},[29160,29162,29164,29166,29168],{"text":29161,"start":25086,"end":25101},"Das glaub, auf jeden Fall, ja.",{"text":29163,"start":25101,"end":25251},"Aber ich find übrigens auch, weil Du grad meintest mit irgendwie, wird ja schon irgendwie die Arbeitszeit beeinflussen, irgendwie die Dessert einfach nur so plakativ mir gesagt, Dave, das ist halt nur 'n Du Problem, dass Du dass Du überlegen musst, worauf Du stolz bist und gesagt darauf stolz, dann irgendwas zu und dann irgendwie, Du hast's ja richtig.",{"text":29165,"start":25254,"end":25282},"Ich glaub schon, dass da irgendwie einen wahrer Kern irgendwie son bisschen drinsteckt.",{"text":29167,"start":25282,"end":25340},"Weil ich mein, wenn wir schon uns vorher irgendwie anschauen, so wie sind waren die typischen die sind typische Development Teams aufgestellt?",{"text":29169,"start":25340,"end":25383},"So, es gibt dann eher die Produktverantwortlichen und die, die für die Umsetzung verantwortlich sind so.",{"sentences":29171,"speaker":775,"num_words":29182,"start":25383,"end":25851},[29172,29174,29176,29178,29180],{"text":29173,"start":25383,"end":25556},"Und ich würde sagen, wenn man als Entwickler eher auf der Seite war, umsetzungsverantwortlich zu sein und nicht jeder Entwickler auch gleichzeitig irgendwie eine Produktverantwortung mitgetragen hat, ist ja schon das, wo deine Schöpfung für das, was Du gebaut hast, Dinge, auf die man ja trotzdem am Ende des Tages irgendwie stolz ist und irgendwie gemacht hat und so und irgendwie viele eigene Gedanken reingeflossen sind, dass davon ja ganz, ganz viel weggenommen wird so.",{"text":29175,"start":25556,"end":25647},"Und ich glaube schon, dass es super vielen da so geht, dass sie daraus irgendwie eine Form von Genugtuung irgendwie bekommen haben, dass hey, ich hab das gebaut, ich hab überlegt, wie das gebaut wurde und so.",{"text":29177,"start":25647,"end":25699},"Und Du gibst davon ja einiges an die AI ab und bekommst mehr der, schau mal drüber, was ich hier gemacht hab, Aufgaben so.",{"text":29179,"start":25699,"end":25749},"Und dass wir schon wahrscheinlich irgendwo darüber dann darüber unterhalten müssen, woher kommt denn dann diese möglicherweise auch Genugtuung für einige?",{"text":29181,"start":25749,"end":25851},"Und das vielleicht bedeutet, keine Ahnung, Devs werden produktnäher und treffen vielleicht da einfach mehr Entscheidungen und probieren mehr schaffen im wirklich Userfacing Produkt dann am Ende vielleicht mit zu übernehmen, daraus irgendwie eine Bestätigung zu bekommen.",194,{"sentences":29184,"speaker":775,"num_words":29195,"start":25851,"end":26185},[29185,29187,29189,29191,29193],{"text":29186,"start":25851,"end":25917},"Also ich muss sagen, ich kann den Dave komplett nachvollziehen, würde wahrscheinlich sagen, ich hätte diese Problematik auch und würde mir wahrscheinlich irgendwo es woanders her holen.",{"text":29188,"start":25917,"end":25994},"Dass er sagt, so, ich muss mehr auf den outcome stolz sein, weil da vielleicht meine Schöpfungshöhe ist und ich hab nur die AI genutzt, das in die Realität umzusetzen.",{"text":29190,"start":25997,"end":26055},"Aber am Ende derjenige zu sein, der sagt, hey, ich hab hier 'n Product Backlog, da stehen die Anforderungen meines Productmanagers drin.",{"text":29192,"start":26055,"end":26148},"Mein Job ist, das zu nehmen und das eine AI zu erklären, dass da irgendwie Probleme drinstecken, dass Leute sagen, hey, am Ende des Tages bin ich vielleicht nicht mehr ganz so motiviert, weil weil mich das nicht antreibt.",{"text":29194,"start":26148,"end":26185},"Da würd ich schon sagen, ist 'n Problem drin, was wir lösen, was gelöst werden muss.",134,{"sentences":29197,"speaker":143,"num_words":29018,"start":26187,"end":26356},[29198,29200,29202,29203,29205],{"text":29199,"start":26187,"end":26229},"Also ich mach mich noch mal unbeliebt und sag, wer, boah, sag ich das hier am Podcast.",{"text":29201,"start":26229,"end":26249},"Sag das mal Sag das mal, komm.",{"text":2311,"start":26252,"end":26253},{"text":29204,"start":26253,"end":26331},"Also wer wer bisher sein sein Selbstwertgefühl daraus gezogen hat, dass er stupile Tickets umsetzt und sich nicht Gedanken darüber macht, was das eigentlich soll und wo das herkommt, das Feature.",{"text":29206,"start":26331,"end":26356},"Für den hab ich eben bisschen weniger Empathie übrig.",{"sentences":29208,"speaker":143,"num_words":27639,"start":26359,"end":26402},[29209],{"text":29210,"start":26359,"end":26402},"Aber das ist, glaub ich, eine ganz andere Diskussion, die man an 'nem anderen Zeitpunkt mal Das hab",{"sentences":29212,"speaker":819,"num_words":27410,"start":26402,"end":26460},[29213,29215,29216,29218,29219],{"text":29214,"start":26402,"end":26426},"ich aber auch auf Fabis Beschreibung jetzt nicht rausgenommen.",{"text":26432,"start":26426,"end":26429},{"text":29217,"start":26429,"end":26440},"Als für Dissens.",{"text":2311,"start":26444,"end":26445},{"text":29220,"start":26445,"end":26460},"Also das heißt ich dir.",{"sentences":29222,"speaker":143,"num_words":27354,"start":26460,"end":26488},[29223],{"text":29224,"start":26460,"end":26488},"Doch, aber wie gesagt, ne, vielleicht machen wir da noch mal",{"sentences":29226,"speaker":122,"num_words":27405,"start":26488,"end":26498},[29227],{"text":29228,"start":26488,"end":26498},"eine Aber es gibt",{"sentences":29230,"speaker":775,"num_words":27498,"start":26498,"end":26750},[29231,29233,29235,29237,29239],{"text":29232,"start":26498,"end":26601},"ja trotzdem noch auch Absätze davon, auch wenn Du dich da schon interessiert hast, war ja trotzdem groß deiner Output, wenn Du sagst, hey, vielleicht arbeitest Du in 'nem Team, wo Du sagst, hey, diese Produkteentscheidung, ich geh damit voll viel mit.",{"text":29234,"start":26601,"end":26642},"Ich muss bei 10 Prozent vielleicht noch mal hier und da sagen, so so würd ich's anders machen.",{"text":29236,"start":26642,"end":26655},"Aber es werden gute Entscheidungen getroffen.",{"text":29238,"start":26655,"end":26672},"Mein Job ist, die bestmöglich umzusetzen.",{"text":29240,"start":26672,"end":26750},"Da ist ja superviel Schaffenskraft drin, indem wie Du bestimmte Anforderungen in welcher Granulatität's ja auch immer bekommst, dann umsetzt, wie Du's irgendwie designs, wie Du schreibst.",{"sentences":29242,"speaker":775,"num_words":28372,"start":26750,"end":26971},[29243,29245,29247],{"text":29244,"start":26750,"end":26800},"Und das ist ja auch superviel, also bestätigen einfach darin, wenn Du was trotzdem gut entwickelst und gut umsetzt, so.",{"text":29246,"start":26800,"end":26878},"Also das ist ja jetzt erst mal kein, es muss ja, musste ja nicht jeder vorher seine seine den Großteil seiner Motivation daraus ziehen, das Produkt auch immer mitzuschapen, so.",{"text":29248,"start":26878,"end":26971},"Und ich würde sagen, ist wahrscheinlich eher der Großteil der Devs, die die ihr die ihre Bestätigung und ihr Begeisterung aus der Umsetzung von Dingen ziehen und nicht unbedingt federführend dafür sein müssen, was genau umgesetzt wird an jeder Stelle.",{"sentences":29250,"speaker":143,"num_words":28257,"start":26974,"end":27126},[29251,29252,29254,29256,29258],{"text":2311,"start":26974,"end":26975},{"text":29253,"start":26975,"end":26999},"Ich glaub, also ja, ich versteh, was Du meinst.",{"text":29255,"start":26999,"end":27025},"Wir können da noch uns ewig im Kreis hättest.",{"text":29257,"start":27025,"end":27073},"Ich glaub, wir lassen das hier lieber angesichts der Anbetracht der Zeit und sind dann durch für heute.",{"text":29259,"start":27073,"end":27126},"Mich würde trotzdem interessieren, wenn ihr da draußen auch an AI Fatique war, glaub ich, das Ja, whatever, ne.",{"sentences":29261,"speaker":143,"num_words":28405,"start":27130,"end":27201},[29262,29264],{"text":29263,"start":27130,"end":27191},"Leidet oder das im Team beobachtet habt und vielleicht schon Ansätze habt, wie ihr damit umgeht, das könnt ihr uns gerne mal zuschicken.",{"text":29265,"start":27195,"end":27201},"Ansonsten 1000",{"sentences":29267,"speaker":819,"num_words":27343,"start":27203,"end":27213},[29268],{"text":29269,"start":27203,"end":27213},"Dank für alle, die am",{"sentences":29271,"speaker":143,"num_words":27437,"start":27213,"end":27272},[29272,29274,29276,29278,29280],{"text":29273,"start":27213,"end":27218},"Start waren.",{"text":29275,"start":27218,"end":27253},"1000 Dank für alle, die Zuhörer haben und wir hören uns nächste Woche wieder.",{"text":29277,"start":27253,"end":27261},"Bis denn da.",{"text":29279,"start":27261,"end":27268},"Bis dann auch.",{"text":27275,"start":27268,"end":27272},{"sentences":29282,"speaker":143,"num_words":122,"start":27277,"end":27278},[29283],{"text":27275,"start":27277,"end":27278},{"sentences":29285,"speaker":819,"num_words":819,"start":27278,"end":27290},[29286,29287,29288],{"text":27275,"start":27278,"end":27281},{"text":27275,"start":27285,"end":27286},{"text":27292,"start":27289,"end":27290},[29290,29308,29332,29348,29365,29394,29405,29417,29462,29469,29476,29480,29502,29546,29571,29642,29654,29707,29713,29732,29751,29841,29851,29862,29868,29916,29929,29952,29963,29967,29990,30014,30045,30058,30096,30106,30194,30236,30252,30256,30318,30353,30395,30423,30433,30439,30485,30502,30531,30564,30576,30592,30603,30611,30620,30638,30644,30662,30685,30718,30728,30745,30767,30783,30799,30823,30835,30841,30853,30865,30872,30876,30894,30900,30910,30917,30926,30944,30956,30979,30988,30997,31001,31005,31013,31025,31033,31037,31060,31064,31071,31075,31098,31114,31129,31133,31149,31169,31188,31192,31202,31228,31232,31245,31252,31269,31289,31300,31313,31333,31337,31348,31362,31381,31403,31426,31440,31444,31452,31485,31489,31505,31512,31520,31536,31544,31556,31572,31584,31591,31603,31612,31627,31676,31713,31723,31729,31774,31793,31806,31816,31823,31891,31940,31944,31962,31972,32006,32046,32074,32115,32130,32161,32236,32273,32405,32431,32463,32496,32500,32550,32559,32565,32591,32612,32649,32663,32667,32694,32713,32717,32780,32793,32807,32819,32827,32831,32846,32890,32915,32923,32943,32965,32969,32973,33004,33029,33037,33052,33059,33067,33090,33096,33112,33153,33163,33216,33247,33265,33285,33303,33322,33332,33353,33381,33404,33458,33475,33493,33500,33514,33571,33582,33600,33644,33656,33714,33718,33738,33749,33804,33808,33835,33846,33858,33867,33886,33909,33944,33974,33978,33982,33988,33994,34000,34119,34131,34171,34189,34193,34203,34215,34227,34249,34313,34320,34336,34356,34382,34433,34458,34503,34542,34546,34764,34806,34834,34891,34914,34928,34935,34978,34982,34996,35009,35013,35017,35030,35069,35091,35105,35123,35192,35266,35291,35304,35311,35353,35361,35394,35398,35402,35427,35438,35449,35480,35493,35513,35670,35744,35780,35791,35795,35815,35826,35842,35853,35867,35882,35891,35900,35925,35947,35996,36021,36044,36051,36059,36190,36209,36213,36242,36246,36254,36274,36292,36322,36339,36484,36551,36658,36664,36677,36736,36773,36800,36844,36848,36915,36926,36960,36964,37010,37033,37037,37043,37080,37088,37095,37101,37115,37136,37146,37176,37183,37209,37213,37322,37330,37370,37551,37595,37642,37653,37657,37813,37835,37880,37889,38003,38035,38067,38075,38079,38096,38228,38246,38275,38285,38317,38401,38485,38532,38555,38561,38619,38640,38648,38715,38728,38792,38903,39019,39028,39045,39049,39057,39093,39100,39200,39254,39381,39407,39426,39519,39602,39640,39647,39784,39844,39848,39948,39963,39972,39980,40008,40024,40031,40048,40085,40175,40191,40198,40215,40219,40227,40239,40252,40261,40275,40302,40339,40349,40422,40433,40474,40502,40619,40641,40679,40685,40692,40737,40794,40833,40869,40876,40899,40907,40976,40995,41076,41080,41093,41105,41159,41169,41182,41197,41212,41226,41242,41274,41284,41290,41308,41322,41349,41353,41357,41375,41395],{"start":140,"end":189,"confidence":29291,"channel":143,"transcript":29292,"words":29293,"speaker":143,"id":29307},0.9689378,"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu 1 neuen programmierbaren News Ausgabe, heute schon in",[29294,29295,29296,29297,29298,29299,29300,29301,29302,29303,29304,29305,29306],{"word":139,"start":140,"end":141,"confidence":142,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":144,"punctuated_word":145},{"word":147,"start":141,"end":148,"confidence":122,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":144,"punctuated_word":147},{"word":150,"start":148,"end":151,"confidence":142,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":144,"punctuated_word":150},{"word":153,"start":151,"end":154,"confidence":155,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":144,"punctuated_word":153},{"word":157,"start":154,"end":158,"confidence":159,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":144,"punctuated_word":157},{"word":110,"start":158,"end":161,"confidence":122,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":110},{"word":164,"start":161,"end":165,"confidence":142,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":164},{"word":167,"start":165,"end":168,"confidence":142,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":167},{"word":7,"start":170,"end":171,"confidence":172,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":173},{"word":175,"start":171,"end":176,"confidence":177,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":178},{"word":180,"start":181,"end":182,"confidence":183,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":180},{"word":185,"start":182,"end":186,"confidence":142,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":185},{"word":188,"start":186,"end":189,"confidence":190,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":188},"93e19f26-7d78-436b-8ece-8f0c88657029",{"start":193,"end":260,"confidence":29309,"channel":143,"transcript":29310,"words":29311,"speaker":143,"id":29331},0.9739926,"Kalenderwoche 8 20 26. Das Jahr ist quasi gefühlt schon gleich wieder rum, obwohl gefühlt gestern erst Silvester war.",[29312,29313,29314,29315,29316,29317,29318,29319,29320,29321,29322,29323,29324,29325,29326,29327,29328,29329,29330],{"word":192,"start":193,"end":194,"confidence":159,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":195},{"word":197,"start":194,"end":198,"confidence":142,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":197},{"word":200,"start":201,"end":202,"confidence":172,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":200},{"word":204,"start":202,"end":205,"confidence":206,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":207},{"word":209,"start":205,"end":210,"confidence":122,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":211},{"word":213,"start":210,"end":214,"confidence":215,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":216},{"word":218,"start":214,"end":219,"confidence":183,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":218},{"word":221,"start":219,"end":222,"confidence":142,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":221},{"word":224,"start":222,"end":225,"confidence":226,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":224},{"word":185,"start":225,"end":228,"confidence":142,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":185},{"word":230,"start":228,"end":231,"confidence":232,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":230},{"word":234,"start":231,"end":235,"confidence":236,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":234},{"word":238,"start":235,"end":239,"confidence":240,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":241},{"word":243,"start":239,"end":244,"confidence":122,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":243},{"word":224,"start":244,"end":246,"confidence":159,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":224},{"word":248,"start":246,"end":249,"confidence":122,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":248},{"word":251,"start":249,"end":252,"confidence":253,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":251},{"word":255,"start":252,"end":256,"confidence":159,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":257},{"word":259,"start":256,"end":260,"confidence":183,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":261},"bd9b932f-66a9-46fb-96a7-cb94791b7fcb",{"start":264,"end":307,"confidence":29333,"channel":143,"transcript":27303,"words":29334,"speaker":143,"id":29347},0.96225995,[29335,29336,29337,29338,29339,29340,29341,29342,29343,29344,29345,29346],{"word":263,"start":264,"end":265,"confidence":183,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":266},{"word":268,"start":265,"end":269,"confidence":122,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":268},{"word":271,"start":269,"end":272,"confidence":215,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":108},{"word":274,"start":272,"end":275,"confidence":183,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":276},{"word":278,"start":275,"end":279,"confidence":280,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":281},{"word":283,"start":279,"end":284,"confidence":285,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":162,"punctuated_word":286},{"word":147,"start":284,"end":288,"confidence":289,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":290,"punctuated_word":147},{"word":292,"start":288,"end":293,"confidence":183,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":290,"punctuated_word":292},{"word":295,"start":293,"end":296,"confidence":183,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":290,"punctuated_word":295},{"word":298,"start":296,"end":299,"confidence":183,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":290,"punctuated_word":298},{"word":301,"start":299,"end":302,"confidence":122,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":290,"punctuated_word":303},{"word":305,"start":306,"end":307,"confidence":215,"speaker":143,"speaker_confidence":290,"punctuated_word":305},"ee3eb156-3b52-47e8-8712-3f41f424b233",{"start":310,"end":358,"confidence":29349,"channel":143,"transcript":29350,"words":29351,"speaker":122,"id":29364},0.83666587,"Dave aka David Krusitzky. Moin. Dennis Becker und der Fabi Think, hallo.",[29352,29353,29354,29355,29356,29357,29358,29359,29360,29361,29362,29363],{"word":309,"start":310,"end":311,"confidence":190,"speaker":122,"speaker_confidence":312,"punctuated_word":64},{"word":314,"start":311,"end":315,"confidence":316,"speaker":122,"speaker_confidence":312,"punctuated_word":314},{"word":318,"start":315,"end":319,"confidence":320,"speaker":122,"speaker_confidence":312,"punctuated_word":321},{"word":323,"start":319,"end":324,"confidence":325,"speaker":122,"speaker_confidence":312,"punctuated_word":326},{"word":328,"start":329,"end":330,"confidence":331,"speaker":122,"speaker_confidence":312,"punctuated_word":332},{"word":334,"start":335,"end":336,"confidence":337,"speaker":122,"speaker_confidence":312,"punctuated_word":49},{"word":339,"start":340,"end":341,"confidence":159,"speaker":122,"speaker_confidence":312,"punctuated_word":50},{"word":147,"start":341,"end":343,"confidence":344,"speaker":122,"speaker_confidence":312,"punctuated_word":147},{"word":346,"start":343,"end":347,"confidence":183,"speaker":122,"speaker_confidence":312,"punctuated_word":346},{"word":349,"start":347,"end":350,"confidence":351,"speaker":122,"speaker_confidence":312,"punctuated_word":80},{"word":353,"start":350,"end":354,"confidence":355,"speaker":122,"speaker_confidence":312,"punctuated_word":356},{"word":139,"start":354,"end":358,"confidence":359,"speaker":122,"speaker_confidence":312,"punctuated_word":360},"10259735-227c-481e-9593-abefd7510b28",{"start":362,"end":443,"confidence":29366,"channel":143,"transcript":29367,"words":29368,"speaker":143,"id":29393},0.94039917,"Das hat ja geklappt, als hätten wir das geübt. 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